Perhaps I phrased this wrong or my attempt at humor skewed the meaning.
I was trying to illustrate that even though people can use a DAW live, in that way, it wouldn’t work with what we’ve been talking about trying do on this thread.
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Yeah, it’s totally accurate to say that using the DAW live for effects in a way to replace a pedalboard is likely to run in to latency issues. But DAWs are used live for lots of things - MIDI, sample playback, loops and DJing, etc.
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Awesome research, Eric! Thanks so much for putting in all that time and effort!
So, how about that MainStage that Apple is peddling as a way to use your laptop as part of your live rig!?! I kind of asked that question further up already, but nobody seems to have used or tried it… I guess it is a slightly re-hashed version of GarageBand/LogicPro, but with the explicit intent to be used on stage. So, you’d think they tweaked their own DAW it just so to avoid latency issues!?!
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I’m seriously thinking about this if it’s still around $30
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Software latency is a part of the problem but often a relatively small part. Hardware latency in the DAC/ADC hardware getting sound in and out of the computer is often a big contributor. And using the DAW as effects, you get it both ways.
So I would guess that the differences in mainstage are mostly to align more towards the type of user interface you want when performing. The example they show for the vocalist there, etc.
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Yeah for $30, assuming it doesn’t require Logic Pro, seems like a no-brainer to try.
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Thanks @eric.kiser for a great in depth look at this issue you have posted above. Appreciate your efforts 
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USB is one of the biggest latency culprits when getting audio in and out of a DAW. Here’s a pretty good overview of where latency comes from and how Thunderbolt makes it significantly better.
I’m not a fan of having things in the PC because I’m constantly having to chase upgrades and support issues. One day things are there. Less than 5 years later they are obsolete, unsupported or have to be upgraded. I’d much rather have dedicated hardware appliances that work the same way every time I touch them.
Even my favorite laboratory grade measurement DAI that I invested so many $$ into 20 years ago eventually had to be abandoned only because they wouldn’t write a 64 bit driver for such an old product. And I couldn’t get the current measurement software to run on an old OS. That was $$$ I didn’t want to spend again. So, appliances for me whenever possible.
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Thanks for all the kind words everybody. I had fun researching and putting that together.
@DaveT That’s a good article. Pretty cool to see where the work on getting rid of latency is happening.
The Thunderbolt replacement for USB is cool, but pricey. The least expensive unit from PreSonus is $600, and you will need a computer that’s less than 3 years old, or be able to add an internal Thunderbolt card to your PC for about $100, to be able to use it.
@itsratso Yes, it’s still $30 in the AppStore. Not for PC though. So, I’m out on this.
@joergkutter I wish I knew enough to address this in any kind of depth.
All I’ve learned so far is this; Where Logic is designed to be used as a recording studio tool, Mainstage is designed to be used as a performance tool. It’s Apple’s answer to Ableton Live.
From comparisons I read, people generally prefer Ableton Live over Mainstage. They each seem to have their strong and weak points and some people will use both live to leverage that.
For what we’ve been talking about, and at $30, Mainstage seems like the best contender for testing this theory.
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I have two DI/preamps, a Steve Harris SH1 from Tech21 and a Harley Benton Bass Expander DI. I use them both with the power supply that came with the tech 21. I use them with a Behringer 2-channel DAI/mixer.
So, when I use the 1/4" jack out in either DI, it’s noisy AF, the Harley is also noisy AF through the headphone out. When I connect them using the XLR with the ground lift, they get quiet. The Harley also is quiet when I run it off battery.
Any suggestions?
Try a different power supply and see if that is the culprit?
That’s what I figured. I was hoping for something that didn’t involve spending money 
In my experience power supplies are usually the culprit of unwanted signal noise. A lot of companies go with cheap adapters to keep the costs for the actual product low. Darkglass doesn’t even include power adapters! Investing in a good power supply is never a bad thing imo. If you just want a good and no noise single adapter (which can easily daisy chain) I would recommend the Boss PSA-120S. If you want multi-power you can also look at CIOKS, TrueTone, VoodooLab, etc.
That said it could also be that if you are daisy chaining that you are not providing enough power. Maybe the Tech power adapter only works well with their own pedal? Altho I would assume that the HB wouldn’t turn on if that is the case. You could test that by only powering one pedal at a time (so no daisy chain) and see if that effects the signal.
Aahhh, OK. Sorry, my for my unclarity!
I use them one at a time (no daisychain), and both work with the power supply. So it’s likely the culprit.
Seems most likely yeah. When I started out with my first pedal I used a super cheap PA. The static noise was crazy when I cranked up the volume. I threw them away lol
Hi Folks. Another recording question here.
So, I tried recording some trial runs through The Trooper intro.
My setup was:
P-bass with Seymour Duncan SH-1 pups and Steve Harris flats
Sansamp SH-1 preamp (Steve Harris settings as per the instructions)
XLR to RCA connection with ground lift engaged because of noisy EF environment
Behringer 2-channel mixer DAI
USB into GarageBand
Monitoring from Behringer via headphones
My question is thus. When I monitor through the headphones, the sound is just about perfect, but the recorded track is hot-hot-hot with all sorts of zips, zings and so on.
When I turn off the bite switch on the preamp, the sound in the headphones is mud, but the recorded sound is still zingy (though less so).
The input level into the mixer really quiets the bass in the monitor, but has no noticeable effect n the recording.
Where is my mistake?
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What is the level you are recording at? You should be shooting for -12 to -18dB. Way way down in the green, below the yellow. This is basically the sweet spot for most audio interfaces.
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