Yeah this ^^^
I can concede that playing at home I have to keep it on the training volume setting but out on a gig I can really open it up to let it breath a bit. If I bring anything that’s overkill for the venue I’d always be stuck on training mode, 
.
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The sale price on that Katana 210 is really REALLY tempting. It certainly wouldn’t be the “wrong” answer to my current situation. Just don’t know if it’s most right.
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My honest answer is No, it’s not a wrong choice. It’s one of the safest future prove amp you can buy right now.
Sounds great right out of the box - check
Class leading multi effects- check
Expandable for stage use with GA-FC (EX)- check
Bluetooth option- check
Super geeky tone studio app for every inner nerds in all of us-check
Still very compact cab with 160w of class AB amp-check check.
If you can wait or can find anyone to match the price Adorama has back ordered for $350 that’s even cheaper than 110
https://www.adorama.com/bsktn210b.html
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Woah. I’d be hard pressed to find something comparable on the used market for $350 (even discounting the modeling abilities). I’d be willing to wait to get it at that price. Can certainly see if GC will honor the price matching on that.
I don’t know enough about Adorama. Will they for sure get it back in stock?
Give them a call. They are well known for camera stuffs, I’d trust them for that. Kinda like B&H
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You could also add speaker ohm rating, sensitivity, and the efficiency of the cab or combo enclosure to that because they’ll impact both tone and sound levels as well. 200w into a speaker with 101dB sensitivity will sound much louder than one with 96dB sensitivity.
The Rumble 200 uses an 8 ohm Eminence 15" speaker so according to Fender specs the amp is putting out 140w maximum @ 8 ohm. It requires an extension cab to produce it’s full 200w @ 4 ohms or replacing the stock speaker with a 4 ohm version of a similar speaker.
We don’t know the exact specs of that speaker but overall Eminence speakers like it tend to be in the 99dB-100dB sensitivity range. All of that info gives us a better idea of what to expect from the wattage any amp can produce and also something about it’s potential output.
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While we’re talking amps and wattage the main reason a bassist might want more wattage isn’t necessarily volume but for clean headroom. Unlike our guitar brothers we really don’t want our rigs breaking into full amp driven distortion. It sounds bad, it’s hell on the speaker(s), and a good way overheat the voice coil and burn one up real quick.
So higher wattage allows us more clean headroom for volume which is better for our speakers and we don’t need to drive the amp so hard either. We had to do a lot of that back in the '60s before they made more powerful bass heads and more efficient bass speakers and enclosures. I ended up replacing speakers before I learned some lessons about power and power handling of speakers.
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Ok in my cart is the Katana 210, GC-FX-EX, and a Sire Marcus Miller P-8 4 string
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Nice!!
Give that place a call and ask for discount.
I wanna be there and jam with you
You’ll have a big o grind the first note you play. You should video yourself it will be priceless.
Congrats
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Man, now I’m tempted to sell my Rumble 100 and get a Katana 210. I might even be able to sell some of my pedals, as I probably wouldn’t need them with this amp.
My turn for wanting rig advice. My Rumble 40 is straining to keep up with band rehearsal. Want upgraded amp for that and option for playing smaller gigs.
TL;DR: I think the big question is if it’s worth $420 for a new 500w Markbass Little Mark IV, or if I should get something cheaper and/or only 300w.
Need: Roughly 150-300 watts with 2x10, 1x12, or 1x15
Wants:
- An additional ~100-200 watts to add an extension later if needed (i.e. a 300-500 watt amp)
- Lightweight/portable
- Clean, flexible tone, but maybe with a touch of subtle character
- Reliable
- Onboard compression is nice
Budget for amp and cab #1 (or a combo):
Would love to spend ~$500. Fine spending up to say $800. I am thinking of taking advantage of Black Friday deals.
Regarding used equipment, my understanding is that getting used amps can be risky, but used cabs are generally pretty safe? Mixing cabs with different speaker sizes (e.g. a 2x10 and a 1x15) may or may not cause problems, but two similar cabs of different manufacture should be fine? (Assuming same Ohms).
I think my ideal rig would be ~350watt lightweight head with two 1x12 cabinets. Then one can live in my bassment and the other in the garage when I can grab it for rehearsal, and have both if necessary.
Options I’m looking at available locally.
Heads:
Markbass Little Mark IV, 500w, new at GC, $420
Ampeg Venture V3, 300w, new at GC, $400
Here is what is available at the 2 local Music Go Rounds, Standouts:
TC BH250, 250w, $200 (small, limited effects modeling)
GK Backline 600, (unclear if 300w, or 2x 300x), $200
Ampeg B2R, 300w, $200 (rack mount with reputedly good tone)
Peavey Megabass, 400w, $140 (cheap workhorse)
Kinda torn on all of the above. I believe in “Buy once. Cry once.” That Markbass is a good deal.
My concern with the Markbass or another 500w head is that I’m seeing a lot of 200watt rated cabs that fit my needs, but not many 300 watt (I expect ~300w @ 8ohms). Potential to overpower a 200w cab. Would I be safer with a 300w amp to pair with two 200w cabs?
Cabs: here is what is currently available at MGR.
Lots of options here and quite a few on FB-Market, from a $350 Mega Bougie (Mesa Boogie) to $50 Crate.
Not many 1x12s. Lots of 2x10 and 1x15. More options for 300w in 1x15 than 2x10.
Not sure the feasibility of pairing 2x10 with 1x15.
Also open to combos.
Fender Rumble 500 would do the trick. Seeing on Musician’s Friend for ~$400-$500 shipped.
Boss Katana 210 would be sweet… but it’s not extendable (plugging in external amp turns off the internal 2x10) and kinda heavy to lug up from the bassment every week, and I already have a Zoom B1x for modeling.
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Whoa… lots of questions.
How much wattage you need would depend a whole lot on the venues you plan to play and how loud your band plays but in general you’ll never regret having more wattage than you need. That said a 500w amp won’t be appreciably louder than a 350w amp but it will give you more clean headroom which on a bass is important.
Another question would be do you play a 4 string or a 5 string? Since notes on the low B need more wattage to drive I’d opt for more wattage with most amps. But that alone is yet another rabbit hole. Some amps are capable of more output per advertised wattage than others. I played a 115 TC Electronic 250w combo that lacked nothing in the way of volume. It was far louder than a 200w GK 112 combo I also played through.
Ohm ratings vs wattage should be looked at as far as output goes. An amp that advertises 500w @ 4ohm will produce only 50%-60% of that into 8 ohms. Many combos have 8 ohm speakers allowing the player to add a second 8 ohm cab to get the full 500w the amp can produce. Stand alone bass heads are much the same.
My Genzler Magellan 350 Combo produces just 175w into it’s 110 Bass Array speaker. To get it’s full 350w @ 4 ohms I would need to add a second 8 ohm speaker. Or I can add 2 more 8 ohm speakers and get 350w @ 2.67 ohm. The amp will handle that.
Multiple speakers tend to provide more volume and dispersion. More cone area. You’re also dividing the amps output into two speakers which share the same wattage. So a 500w head played into dual 300w speakers is fine. Each speaker will see 250w. You could safely play a 500w head into a 300w speaker if you don’t goose the volume too much because you aren’t using all 500w.
Another issue when looking at the specs of speakers is to compare their sensitivity as measured in dB. A speaker with 100dB sensitivity will use wattage more efficiently and sound louder than one with 97dB sensitivity. One with 103dB would be much louder.
These are all things for us to know about when we shop for a rig. But in the end only the player knows what right for their needs and the best way to determine that is to play a number of different amps. It’s surprising who much variance there is between them. The right rig for anyone’s needs should last a very long time so don’t worry about a small difference in price. Buy the best value you can that fits your needs.
Hope this helps all who are looking to buy a new rig.
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Thanks for the full reply. Appreciate it. I’ll try to take points in order.
I currently play a 4 string. Might pick up a 5 at some point, but not looking at that anytime soon.
I’m aware of the Ohms issue. I’ve been doing a lot of homework. All of the amps I’m looking at are rated to 4 ohms. My plan is to start with one 8 ohm cab and add a second one later to give flexibility. I’m assuming an amp will make ~60% power at 8ohms compared to 4 ohms (so a 500w amp will make ~300)
This is where I get into questions about cab choice. For a first cab, assuming I get a 500w amp…
- Will it be safe to run a 200w rated cab at 8ohms? Or should I be selective and be sure I get a 300w rated cab?
- 1x15, 2x10, or 1x12
- Can I mix a 1x15 with a 2x10, or am I likely to run into dead spots from harmonic interference?
Not sure where to look up the sensitivity ratings on the used cabs I’m looking at. Going to just do it by ear.
I had been hoping for suggestions on which heads people think would likely suit me best. I’m kinda worried less about that because… personal preferences are personal. I’m going to just have to try things out and see.
Went by Guitar Center yesterday. Liked the Markbass more than the Ampeg they had. Going by Music Go Round later to check out what they have.
My two big takeaways from the testing yesterday are: a 500w amp is not going to be too loud for home practice. I’d rather take a clean sound and dirty it up for rock, than take a gritty sound and try to clean it up for funk or R&B.
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I was hoping I wasn’t going too overboard with info that you already knew but thought whatever I posted may also be helpful for others so I included it.
The wattage of an amp vs how much a given speaker can handle is based more on how much of that wattage is going into that speaker. Playing at the level one might play at home 300w into a 200w speaker should be fine since you’d be nowhere close to using full volume from the amp. Just don’t goose the amp is all.
But if you want to be 100% safe then having a cab with two speakers sharing the 300w output @ 150w each is the proper way to go. A 2x10 cab can be combined with a 1x15 cab. It’s done all the time. I plan to add a 112 Bass Array cab to pair with the 110 I have now.
Where some have recommended against it is based how each speaker responds to what it’s receiving. Tens tend to respond faster to a note being played and give you a tighter bottom end. Fifteens will give a more rounded fuller bottom end where notes seem to “bloom”.
Most of us would probably not able to notice this and might actually enjoy the combination. Or you can split it down the middle and play a 2x12 rig which has also become more popular. I played an Epifani 2x12 cab for quite awhile before opting to downsize due to weight.
The wattage won’t impact volume at home since they all have a volume knob. I was playing 500w and 750w heads through that Epifani 2x12 cab in an apartment. I just kept the volume low and had the cab sitting on a Gramma Pad to absorb the low end vibrations so they didn’t transmit through the floor or walls.
A lot of players enjoy MarkBass amps but they will have a very different baked in voicing than Ampeg. More modern vs more old school. Personally I favor the Ampeg voicing but then I’m old school too. Very old school with an emphasis on very old…LOL.
Going with more modern voicing makes sense since one of the features of an Ampeg is it’s ability to get gritty. It’s the signature voice of an Ampeg SVT rig. But you can buy preamps and pedals that emulate that and add one to your set up for when you want that kind of voicing.
One caveat I will add has to do with over taxing a speaker. It can be damaged a couple of different ways. Playing too loud and pushing more wattage than a speaker can safely handle can create an over excursion of the cone and surround and tear it.
The second comes from playing too loudly and distorted for too long which can burn out the voice coil. But most speakers can effectively handle more wattage than they’re rated for as long as it’s done with care. Don’t play 300w into a 200w speaker too loud or too long and avoid loud transients in low register.
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I believe it’s bet to err on the side of sharing information that the other person already knows rather than omitting information that they don’t. I take no offense.
What you’re describing on speaker wattage ratings and what power an amps supplies is how I understood it.
I’m not worried about running a 200w cab with a 500w head for home practice. I know I won’t get that loud. I wouldn’t try to gig like that.
Where I’m on the fence is band rehearsal. Definitely louder than home, but presumably quieter than a gig. I’m probably safe with a 200w rated cab and just being careful with volume… probably.
Probably the right answer there is a 300w rated cab (1x15 or 2x10) stored upstairs that gets lugged to weekly rehearsal, and a 2x10 that lives in the bassment for home practice and could be hauled out for gigs. That could be 200w just fine.
I have interest in playing more funk, New Wave, R&B, maybe jazz fusion. I think those are going to want cleaner.
I tested an Ampeg Rocket combo (they wouldn’t unbox a Venture V3 for me just to test), the voicing with everything neutral was too dark for my preference when I tried playing “Let’s Dance”. The Markbass at neutral was a bit over-bright trying “Oye Como Va”, but it had a handy little “Old School” knob that gave me nice control to dial in the sort of tone I would want for that or reggae.
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Yup. The Ampeg will have a “warmer” voicing that emulates it’s tube driven predecessors like an SVT, V4, and B15. They love PBass and JBasses and old school Classic Rock and R&B/Soul stuff. SVTs backline a whole lot of concert venues.
The MarkBass will be brighter and more inline with what the market wants in a more versatile amp. I’m also an advocate of separate heads and cabs that provide even more versatility. Then I can choose a cab that’s most appropriate to my needs.
My MG350 Combo actually consists of a separate 350w head that simply attaches to the speaker cab via a cradle so it can be transported as a single unit. But it can just as easily be removed for use with other cabs if I prefer those.
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Picked this up at MGR. It weighs about 30lbs., but I loved the sound of it. Much better than the modern Amgep Rocket or Markbass I tried yesterday.
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Fortunately I didn’t see this topic last week or @Al1885 would’ve convinced me to take the plunge on the 210.
With discounts, I could’ve gotten it for about 400€ with footswitch and BT Dongle.
I bought an edrum kit instead. Youngest kid has been asking for one and everyone else here is drum curious… so yeah… 
Anyhow @mdkowals enjoy your gear! 
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Alesis?
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