It truly is. The democratization of music production has led to wonderful things.
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Same here. Thatâs why my vocal favs are Tom Waits and Leonard Cohen.
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Exactly. That fact that the phone in your pocket is also a recording studio, a synthesiser, and a video production and editing suite, is beyond remarkable. The fact that you can sign up for a course, on line, and learn enough about making music (Bazz Buzz being a fantastic example), or music production, to actually make and record music, is incredible. Have an idea, learn some basic skills and bam!, youâre a musician!
Of course, punk was predicated on a democratisation of music, early blues and rock ânâ roll too, but wow, weâve never had it so good.
I listen to some of the stuff my 10 year old likes. Itâs superb! Yes, some is cr@p, but there was plenty of that in the 80s, the 70s, the 60s, the 90s, the 00s tooâŠ!
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But: having the means to make music does not mean that you make good music.
In my opinion: whatâs missing is a real (non-Tiktok) sub culture.
So I disagree with this:
Where is the âUnknown Pleasuresâ or âCloserâ album of today? An instant classic? A game changer? Music that speaks for a whole subculture? Music that comes from crisis (or at least from the heart, not from the formula or Algorithm)?
Most artists currently feel like influencers. It does not matter if they sell shampoo while lying nude in the bathtube or sing and performâŠ
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The problem isnât that these things donât exist. The most recent example I remember is âUltrapopâ by The Armed, for example.
The difference is that albums as such are much less important now, and youâre still thinking they matter. Itâs cool, I wanted to too, but they just donât.
Genres now come and go fast and thereâs innumerable subgenres. Itâs just different now and youâre looking for a tribe in a post-tribal music landscape.
Also, goths still exist and even have new bands. Same for post-punks, which is arguably stronger now than in 1979.
And I say all that with Unknown Pleasures being my favorite album of all time, but you knew that already.
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Another example: Yakui the Maid single handedly kicked off the entire Maidcore genre, which does have a tribe, but isnât gonna make the radar of someone looking for the next big gamechanging album release on a label.
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You know what I mean. But letâs not focus on albums.
When did the last âLove will tear us apartâ moment happen?
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Ah, thanks!
Usually these discussions lead to expected results - but now you gave me a ânewâ album to listen to. I like what I heared so far!
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Yeah itâs really good, lol. Check out âAn Iterationâ.
Also check out Yakui The Maid, heâs awesome.
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If they are young enough, why even give them musical examples? Put them in a room with hearing protection and a bunch of instruments and they them play.
In a world where everything is either made with AI or with an earworm formula maybe loud chaos is the new waveâŠ
Eventually they might ride the chaos until they want to learn how to actually play.
I think with kids itâs more about teaching them that hard work and practice get you results. Before that point itâs either let them play or force them into lessons until it clicks.
I get in trouble saying modern music lacks soul. There is still great modern music, I just personally believe itâs not on the charts. But thatâs what makes music amazing. Everyone can like what they like. If they like the same chord progression in half of the artistâs work itâs cool! 
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I get we gotta find SOME good in whatâs going, and especially you breeders will find a certain joy in liking what your kids like, as you see it brings them happiness.
That does not mean itâs good.
But this is, in my old-ass eyes, the current state of all of the arts; jazz may not be dead âit just smells funnyâ (thank you Mr. Zappa), most movies truly suck and literature does not even exist anymore.
Everything, it seems, is pretty disposable.
And your examples, @howard only show that. In my opinion. The Armed I found outright un-listenable (this generationâs Linkin Park?) (holy poop @Whying_Dutchman you caved in awful quick! (just teasing)) and the Yaku The MaidâŠum, ok? Granted this is based on clicking forward many times through the tunes, as nothing seemed worth sticking withâŠso maybe Iâm missing the next Bach, but Iâll be fine.
I think you are a big fan of Poppy? I tried her first album after seeing her mentioned many times on the âwhat are you listening to?â threadâŠgood workout album, but I would never consider this as worth listening to, let alone in any way influential (kinda of what the topic is here, moreso than just âwhat is goodâ), if I was not needing a solid beat to keep killing myself on the bike.
But whatdoiknow, maybe the music shops and Berklee are now flooded with people learning music because of herâŠ
And of course there IS good stuff out there, we just may not be encountering it right awayâŠ
Peace,
j
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okay
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Agreed!
But watch âSaltburnâ and tell me you are not humming âMurder on the Dance Floorâ after that 
There are some good movies ⊠just not the blockbusters.
Hmmm ⊠donât like to cave in, especially in response to @howard
Still listening âThe Armedâ - so the final verdict is still out. But then you have to know that I also find Idles and Viagra Boys great. Itâs like Punk ⊠only better!
Poppy s#cks! Everybody that looks like selling soap, lying nude in bathtubs s#cks!
Poppy is the most truly punk artist that has happened in a long time, I will die on this hill 
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Whatâs interesting reading the last few posts is that I wonder what our average age isâŠ
My dad thought 80s music was crap when I was blasting out Tears for Fears, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran etc., and that music lost its soul when the synth became ubiquitous. Of course there was some crap music in the 80s. Those bands I mentioned produced some crap songs, filler on albums. But there was also fantastic music.
Same now, some rubbish stuff. Some great stuff.
Older blokes says, âcurrent music isnât as good as it was in my dayâ. Plus ça change, plus câest la mĂȘme chose 
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This is what we call a âdooddoenerâ in Dutch (dooddoener - Wiktionary, the free dictionary)
Of course, this could be the case.
But we live in times where music, image and therefore sub culture is completely dominated by marketing guys/gals or worse: the âalgorithmâ. Look at most Spotify-centered productions.
Iâm not saying that music in the past was not determined by marketing driven people (looking at you, Stock Aitken Waterman).
But with current technology itâs so easy to create something that appears meaningful ⊠and is in fact hollow!
Itâs not only market analysis, itâs using formulaic lyrics, vocalisation, music production tricks, all optimized to SELL.
Look at the movie industrie, that cites itself all the time (prequels, sequels, remakes, the whole super hero genre) ⊠and uses the heroâs journey ad nauseam.
Of course, there are exceptions. But in general these are the times of meaningful appearing emptiness!
Which makes me think of a great song, which has nothing to to with this topic (or does it?):
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I used to listen to the Manics loads 
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And his dad likely thought the Beatles/Stones/Doors/etc. were crap.
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You say it yourself, Stock Aitken Waterman and the 80s are synonymous. Yet, in the 70s, there were manufactured bands, in the 60s, in the 50s. And as in most endeavours, itâs about money. Pop music, rock music, goth, whatever genre, there have always been, and always will be the marketing, the merchandise, the money making machines!
Freak me, to coin a phrase, itâs the great rock ânâ roll swindle!!
But Iâll also go back to the point I previously made, folks in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s have always said, âIt was better in my dayâŠâ.
Go and engage with younger people and ask them what they think⊠I have to, I have a 10 year old and she loves âherâ music! Any guess what, in 30 to 40 years time, her generation will be starting to say, âIt was better in my dayâŠâ
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Exactly!
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