THEORY or NO THEORY? (strong opinions desired)

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I’d like to see a good amount of theory here. For me - theory lets me create all kinds of lines, riffs fills and transitions that I would be less likely to stumble upon through experimentation. Experimentation, without thinking about theory, is also fun/useful. Theory also makes it easier to create lines which work well with what others in a band are playing. Things like chord progressions, cadences, etc. make it easier to create content that works.

I’ve been playing between a year and a half and two years (since I retired). Took in-person lessons for about a year and a half, realized that my main limitation was timing, counting (mixed note and rest lengths). Stopped taking bass lessons and started taking drum lessons to work on my counting, timing and rhythm. Once I’ve got those under control I’ll take bass lessons again. Still play the bass most every day - just don’t want to spend the money to take both bass and drum lessons every week. I’ve read a Music Theory for Dummies book (from the library) and taken an online Music Theory course (from Michigan State University) and am currently taking a Music Theory course from a university in Scotland. Both of these were/are free on the Coursea site.

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I took piano lessons when I was a child and teenager (and haven’t played piano since I was 18 - a really long time ago), so the music theory is a great refresher. Most of it came back to me as I was absorbing the lessons. I find the comparison of the tabulature to the music staff extremely helpful in getting me back up to speed and relating the notes to my bass. I started your course in late September, so I’ve only been playing about 2-3 weeks. Yes, keep it coming.

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I love, love, love when doing something clicks with the why, what and where of it. Theory alone is too dry for me, and simply doing stuff by feel is too aimless.

So, give me the theory, I ain’t afraid of big words (we have monuments like Straßenverkehrsamt in my native language :wink: ).

I recently learned a song in two days when I figured out that it’s in the key of Bm, the verse moves around Bm and walks through the scale, and the chorus walks from the third to the fourth. Had I just learned note by note, or in fragments, it would have been too confusing. And to throw the theory at me before learning it would sound like gibberish. So, it’s applied theory that really helps me.

Cheers,
Antonio

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:100:

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Yes please more music theory.

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OK -so first of all Im old (76) and don’t have the time I did when I should have been learning bass as a teen. Previously a drummer - some brief piano lessons 30 yrs ago. I really like the style in the 1st few lessons - a little practical info then a practice session with a band. I would like more pop quizzes like in the “learn your fret board” video. The exercise in “do this for 10 minutes a day” is great. More of something like this would be nice. I’m really glad I came across BASSBUZZ as a started a couple of months ago. Really helpful.

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  1. Yes
  2. I’d like to connect the knowledge (I have some theory knowledge) to practical application and Josh would be great at this.
  3. I’ve been playing for about 4ish years
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Owned a bass since the 90s. Noodled and attempted Mel Bay Blues Bass and whatnot for years. Finally in the lockdown bought B2B.

I love the amount of theory in the course. And now want to know more moving forward. It makes seeing a song and understanding where it is going, the progressions, so much easier.

I’ve started looking elsewhere for more theory instruction. Bernadette Teaches on YT recently did her September Challenge entirely on theory. It was fantastic. So much simpler when broken up into 30 7-20 minute lessons and a great start for more learning!

So the answer is yes! I would love your (JF’s) approach to more theory. Also side modules on blues and other topics. If a full part two seems daunting, side modules like that for smaller sub $ may be the way to go. I bet the YT metrics can point you to which would generate the most interest.

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Hi, I’m a bit late to reply, but hope the input will help @JoshFossgreen .
Sorry if this is very wordy, but I am hoping to convey a specific need.

Simple answer is yes, more theory please. But with a specific twist.
:slight_smile:

I think Josh strongest advantage is his ability to break down the progression of skills into bite-sized, very practical exercises, but also ramp those up to a high level by hand-holding and walking you along the way.

I’ll give two examples, because they relate to what I’d love to see from a theory course:

  1. The YoutTUbe video about the finger exercise using the walk-up/walk-down (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riCDOFyRIZ4).
    You can see how we start very simple, and VERY practical - Josh tells you exactly what to do, where to place your fingers and what to aim for.
    But by the end we are looking at putting together some theory and chord notes as well as moving the exercise along to other chords and using it in real life.

  2. The seocnd example is the B2B lessosn on improv (Module 8 lesson 4). Improv is very intimidating, and very hard to know where to start. There are so many notes on the neck!
    If you go back to this lesson it is a masterclass in how a teacher can walk a student through something complex and intimidating, and make it immediately useful. Josh makes sure the notes we use are clear, why we use those notes, gets the student to be familiar with the notes, and then introduces the rhythm frame (and makes sure the students practices the rhythm only), then we go into practicing with changing just one note. Etc. You get the point. Very slow, hand-holding approach that makes sure no student is left behind.

The key in those examples is the slow buildup and the specificity of what to do (which is what feels like hand-holding).

So - I hope this can be brought into the theory lessons somehow.

I find that starting with theory is intimidating to me specifically because of time availability. (I’m a full time shift-worker in healthcare with two kids. Not a lot of extra time in the day).
It is not hard to grasp the concepts in my head. But what is hard is to sit down with the bass and map out what’s in my head into the guitar, and then practice it and making it relate to playing music.
If I went to music college that is I would be doing for 4 years of my life all day. Alas, I have about 10-20 minutes a day at best and when I try sitting down and mapping out thoughts in my head into the bass it takes time. By the time I get anywhere I need to go get the kids their dinner, or do laundry or whatever it is that we are busy with.
This is why I loved the improv lesson so much. It would have taken me probably days to get there alone, because by the time I figured out the scale and chord notes, my practice time is over.

So (finally!) - what I am hoping from a theory course is the same approach with theory. Josh is already very good at mapping exercises and connecting the knowledge in the head to the fingers on the bass to the way the music sounds (see the improv lesson).

I assume that when one learns theory there are some exercises that are done on paper before moving to the guitar. I would like to see the same bite-size, hand-holding approach to doing those exercises as well. For example: what should I do to slowly learn my circle of 5ths? I don’t know, but I bet Josh will have some clear, concise, slow-build exercise, and he will find a way to tie it into a song or a finger exercise.

OK - hope it wasn’t too wordy, but I can find a million theory books, videos and classes online. What I really need is Josh’s bite-size, hand-holding ™ touch to pull me along.

  1. What motivates me? To be able to understand the music I play, be able to jam with friends more easily, and understand my favorite songs and why they work so well.

  2. Playing maybe 3 years, but practicing very sporadically and not in a well directed fashion.

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I just finished Module 1, but I’ve been fascinated by music theory for years. There are a few YouTubers I watch that really get into the topic.

It’s one of the reasons I decided to start on the bass.

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Hey Josh.

As part of my journey, yes, I would like to learn more theory. Especially if its taught with the same mix of enthusiasm, relevance and cheeky tongue-in-cheek attitude of the bass course.
The short version of my story is that I’ve been playing bass for around 40 years, having been inspired in the post-punk early 80’s.
It was cool and ‘trendy’ to play with a pick, and coupled with my obsessive desire to get out of the bedroom, I’ve taught myself some bad techniques, especially with the fretting hand. Fast forward to 4 months ago, and, after 10 years of dusting gig bags, I find the desire to play again irresistible.
But.
I’ve decided to challenge myself, and un-learn all those poor techniques, learn finger style ‘plucking’ (although a small boy in my head snickers at that) and, as if that weren’t enough, learn some damn theory too. I stumbled across Josh on YouTube, liked the style and professionalism coupled with humour, and signed up for the course too. I’m about halfway through.
So yes. More theory please…

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@MikeC , I think you will be happy to know that I was accepted into the Beginner to Badass Academy last night! Yes, Josh is pretty awesome.

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I go back and forth. Sometimes I feel very guilty for immediately forgetting that Nashville Numbering even exists after that module and go into a shame spiral so I revisit some of the more theory heavy modules or practice scales from the course extra packet. Other times I really just want to play songs I like from tabs on youtube, and it seems like most of my favorite music is fairly in simple major and minor scales, and 1,3,5 kind of stuff with some octave shifts. Glad to have it, but as someone who is about to finish the B2B course, and has poked around here for what people take next, seems like a lot take some of SBL’s, which seem a lot more theory heavy. I feel pretty good at this point, even not quite being done with B2B, but my goals are, at least for the foreseeable future, going to be getting my speed up, my dexterity up, my spider hand a bit more tamed, and work on timing so I can play along to favorite songs and at some point jam a bit with friends. I don’t need to feel fancy. Your latest youtube video was great I thought, I would appreciate a second course in that direction.

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Old topic, but I would like to answer anyway, because I like the questions.

1. Yes, I want to learn more music theory. I think it makes learning interesting. The theory in the BtoB course is enough to start a bass journey, and most people won’t need or want more theory than that. But I am one of those extra geeky kinds who loves grammar when studying new languages, I like to know the why of everything, I like theory, rules, grammars, instruction books, Wikipedia, googling all sorts of things. It isn’t enough to know something is what it is, I want to know why. I think learning is fun.

2. I don’t think I “should” (in the sense of “need”), but more theory would be useful for learning new things in the future. Also, I think it would be more fun in the long run to keep studying new things alongside with playing songs, and it would motivate me to continue playing everyday. I do it mostly as a hobby. But I think once the lessons stop, there is a risk of stagnation and feeling lost, like “what should I do now”, because even though I have learned a lot, I still feel as a beginner.

3. I started the BtoB course this Spring, and finished it in September or so. Prior to the course, I had only 3 in person private 30 minutes lessons with a local bass teacher. I learned more and faster from the BtoB than from private lessons (30 minutes once a week is not enough and it is also expensive).

What motivates me is studying, practising and seeing my progress. Learning more, and gradually being able to play more difficult songs. I still have trouble playing faster songs, and I need to work on my speed.

Another important thing that motivates me, is that I love bass. I wish I had started it sooner.

I studied piano as a child/young teenager against my will (it was my mother’s choice), so I didn’t enjoy it. It is completely different starting to play an instrument because something inside me clicked and I wanted to learn to play bass. Music theory is a lot more interesting now because it is something I wanted to start myself.

Another thing that motivates me is difficulty. It is fun that sometimes it is difficult, and that sometimes I might get frustrated when I don’t understand something. Then the moment I understand it, it is pure joy. Also, practising something difficult makes me forget any stress and worries. It is relaxing. It is better than meditating.

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I recently picked up Ariane Cap’s book “Music Theory for the Bass Player” based on a mention on BassBuzz. It’s excellent, so I also order her book “The Pattern System for the Bass Player”. Both come with an extensive library of videos to support the book. I also get an email about once a week with additional tips. The video on this page is about union of theory and technique. Very interesting. Let me know if you can access it without a having an account.

Unlocking your Theory Book - Tip #2

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I’ve been messing around on various instruments for about 50 years, and have yearned to understand theory nearly all that time. I’ve read books, done workbooks, took a theory class in college, played with apps; but none of it really clicked until I started on the bass last year.

It’s making sense now, and it’s marvellous! I’ve got John Goodman’s book “Bass Theory” which I really like. It is dry, but every sentence is a brilliant key to a new world. (I just learned Goodman is a poet as well as a bass player. I will have to look for his poetry and see if it is as spare and dense as his technical writing.)

I certainly would not object to more theory in B2B, but since it isn’t an aspect that everyone loves it might be best presented as a course extra or bonus lesson.

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An interesting rez, but I’ll chime in too. As part of team more theory I also have to respect that some players just really don’t want to learn it. I think B2B gets really close to, but falls just short of my 80-20 rule on theory… and really just needs an extra masterclass lesson on 7th chords and chord extensions. That’s it. The course already does a good enough job in giving students the tools they need to make their own bass lines given a key and chord progression, or something like a lead sheet that sticks to simple triads. A simple explanation on those topics would be enough to upgrade a student to start exploring something like The Real Book without going into a dead panic. I really liked how your improv lessons were secretly doubling up as functional ear training and just having a grasp on extensions would prevent a lot of confusion with things sounding different (eg. flat 5)

Personally speaking I’m interested in writing my own music or rearranging existing pieces so my interests and needs are going to be well past someone who just wants to perform or play along with music they like. I’m happy to learn about something even if it’s beyond my skill level just because I think it’s interesting and I like building awareness of these things. Sure, I will probably never go deep enough into jazz to care about a Coltrane Matrix, but at least hearing that term doesn’t cause a desperate attempt at maintaining a poker face.

actually motivates bass students

Anyone who wakes up excited to learn theory for the sake of theory is insane to me. Also probably a unicorn. But for myself and probably most others interested in the topic theory is a window to understanding and communicating about the music we like. Theory friendly youtubers like 12tone, 8bmt, Adam Neely, etc. always present these discussions the context of applied theory which results in interesting content even if someone isn’t familiar with the topic at hand. Without that context learning raw theory would be like going through a math book for the sake of it. Ewww.

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Let me know if you can access it without a having an account.

Unlocking your Theory Book - Tip #2

No account needed.

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Ummm… (glances at shelf of math books)

Insane unicorn, reporting for duty! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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I absolutely want to learn (or relearn in my case) more theory related specifically to the Bass. I learned Theory at School, college and Uni but didn’t need to afterwards so it fell away. I’m currently relearning the Arpeggios up to 7ths. I’ve got all the patterns stuck in the head but I really want to be able to say the notes!

I wouldn’t say that you can’t enjoy the instrument without it, or play in bands for many years as most players I know don’t really know any theory, but it absolutely makes it easier for you to work with anyone at any level.

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