When do you actually stop being a beginner?

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I’m with @Barney here @KJsGrooveQuest - you don’t need to learn the whole fretboard. Most of the stuff I play is in E so I know where E, B. A and D are and a couple of others. IMO it’s more important (certainly at the start) that you know the relative position of the other notes in the scale. For example, a fifth is one up and two to the right, an octave is two up and two to the right.

(Swap right for left if you’re left handed)

You shouldn’t be thinking “the fifth of A is E, E is located at fret 7 second string”. This is too slow and you’ll have major problems if you change your tuning.

So I would say get used to playing your favourite songs and try to internalise where those those notes are. If you don’t play other notes, you probably don’t need to know them

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23

Actually while I am on this philosophical trip, I should add a good quote from Zen and the Martial Arts (Hyams)

A young boy traveled across Japan to the school of a famous martial artist. When he arrived at the dojo he was given an audience by the sensei.

“What do you wish from me?” the master asked.

“I wish to be your student and be the finest karateka in the land,” the boy replied. “How long must I study?”

“Ten years at least,” the master answered.

“Ten years is a long time,” said the boy. “What if I studied twice as hard as all your other students?”

“Twenty years,” replied the master.

“Twenty years! What if I practice day and night with all my effort?”

“Thirty years,” was the master’s reply.

“How is it that each time I say I will work harder, you tell me that it will take longer?” the boy asked.

“The answer is clear. When one eye is fixed upon your destination, there is only one eye left with which to find the Way.”

Thus is the wisdom of Hyams :slight_smile:

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24

I’ll second that you don’t need to know the FULL fretboard. Just enough of it to get by. What you get in the early modules of B2B is plenty.

Know your open strings - E, A, D, G

Then look at the dots on your first 3 strings. They walk right up the scale:

E3 - G
E5 - A
E7 - B
A3 - C
A5 - D
A7 - E
D3 - F
D5 - G
D7 - A

Then you need to know your two basic octave shapes.

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25

Yeah - that’s kind’ve what has had me on the fence about SoR. I initially avoided traditional lessons, to avoid cost so it felt a bit counter productive, to start paying to get the band experience now.

B2B and YouTube have been good up to this point the feedback here has been more than enough encouragement for me to go for it!

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26

Two octave shapes? There’s the two strings and two frets shape, but what’s the other one?

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Three strings, three frets, the other direction. If you’re using a 4th finger pattern triad then you’d use this for your R-3rd-5th-octave.

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I should have said 3 shapes. Because there’s also jumping up 12 frets.

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29
  • How did you know when you were no longer a beginner?

Why do you need to know :wink:
You’ll always be better than someone and worse thant someone else
Bass is very easy as an instrument and with very simple root note / quarter note paterns you can already bring a lot to a band

  • What helped you transition out of solo practice into group playing?
    Just do it !
    Being in a band gives you a target and visible progress
    I was already in a band before B2B (root note / quarter note)
    B2B gave a whole new dimension to bass playing, I’m having much more fun … but not sure anyone in the band has noticed :wink: To be fair, they noticed, but 80% of the audience won’t as long as you grove… which is just about holding a rythm

  • Any low-cost ways to get that real-world experience without joining a formal program
    Get in a band :wink:
    More seriously I created the band with my 4 sons so it was pretty easy to start something :wink:

I started recently to play bass at my church (woreship band) and this is absolutely great (for many other reasons than bass but I’ll focus on bass):

  • it is testing my adaptability (sheet music distributed 4h before)
  • it is a welcoming band and levels are intermediate
  • It’s all about improvisation, creating your own stuff (I suscribded to the creative bassist course from Mark at talking bass after B2B and a few other talking bas courses)

Moreover, i tried something that could be usefull in other context, I rehearse framing 3 different levels, for ex

  • level 1 : roots on money notes (close to the nut)
  • level 2 : Root and fifth / octave ; chromatic approaches
  • Level 3 = Level 3 but navigating the fret board, adding ghost notes…
    to be honest, when playing live, i start with level and if I feel it I move up a level … and then the song ends (so stuck to level 2 at best).
    This has 2 benefits: it increases the intensity of the song; if I fail moving one level up, it still sounds much better than without bass :wink:
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30

Wow, how wonderfully comforting :upside_down_face:

Bass is such a banal instrument. It turns out that I must be retarded, since after 4 years and thousands of hours spent practicing I still can’t play at all and as it turned out, I’m still a beginner🤭

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31

But seriously now, as I’m fresh out of the “band experience”. And believe me, you have to be prepared that it can be a really bad experience.

I don’t agree with Josh that everyone is always ready.
No, you have to BE really ready, be able to play at a decent level. Otherwise, you’re going to have a series of humiliations and embarrassments. People will mock you, bully you, laugh at you. You will be their punching bag.

I started playing with them in February, because after almost 4 years of hard practice in my room, I wanted to start playing with people. I was the weakest point from the beginning and the first rehearsal was a complete disaster. I cried for 3 days and gave up music for a week. But somehow they still wanted to play with me and I stupidly agreed.
Because I listened to people here, was convinced by my husband and teacher. That it would be great later, that it is learning path blah blah blah.

The next months passed, for me it was unimaginable stress, I did everything I could to keep up with them, I practiced at night to improve. Listened to the recordings from rehearsals and felt worse and worse because I clearly stood out as the weakest one.

As a result I lost weight because I couldn’t eat, I started getting sick because my immunity dropped from stress, I’ve had 2 rounds of antibiotics. After yesterday’s experience (listened to recording and I sound like a 7 year old who pick up bass for the first time) I’m leaving for good.
Was it worth it? No.

Was I ready? No.

What did I learn from it?
That I still don’t know anything, can’t play, and that I’m not ready to play with people.

I’m considering quitting music, but maybe I’ll wait until I calm down.

Seriously this forum gives me depression, when I read people’s experiences here, I feel worse.

You are all like geniuses, everything works out for you, after a year you can play concerts with your bands and and it’s wonderful. And it’s all without any effort, because bass is the easiest instrument and everyone can play it :upside_down_face:

Meanwhile, for me it’s a torment.

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32

Wow, that’s a lot to unpack. All I’ll say is, a hobby should bring you enjoyment. If it doesn’t, no shame in walking away and finding one that does. Good luck :metal:t2:

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33

@Hann - don’t be so hard on yourself.

Not every band is a good fit. I think what you have actually found here is a bad band for you. It’s not that you are the weak link, it’s that you and the band are just not a good fit.

and that’s just fine.

Not everyone fits in with every band. Especially if you were verbally abused/mocked - you aren’t the problem here.

I want to validate you here: You were right to quit this band. But that doesn’t mean you need to give up on music.

Take a step back for sure - you’re stressing and need time to cool down. But after you have destressed, start looking more for other beginners to play with.

Or just enjoy playing on your own! There’s no law that says you have to play live. I am at a point where I don’t want to again, and I’ve done it enough to know both the ups and downs of it. It’s not everyones favorite thing and there’s no shame at all in not doing it, or not ever playing with others. Ignore anyone that tells you that you have to; they are wrong.

This is true too! However I would say to step back and focus on what you enjoy in music. And if there isn’t anything, then yes, time to move on; but give yourself a chance.

There’s no rule that says you have to be in a band, and it isn’t for everyone.

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34

No that’s the drums :sunglasses:

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35

Sorry you had such a bad experience. Hey let us know if you’re ever passing by Lodz and we can jam, although I also play the bass…

How did you get in touch with the band in the first place, by the way?

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36

I’m doing the SoR thing and, its a bit pricey but I love it, its like a lower stakes version of being in a band. Also it’s great place to find people you might want to form a band with, which is what I’m trying to do now.

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37

@hann, I’m very sorry you had a bad experience with the band you were in. The fact of the matter is that people can often be total assholes. But there are good people in the world. It’s worth your time to be careful when looking for them and being discriminating when you find them.

Make no mistake: many Buzzers either never play with others or, if they do, it’s not necessarily a great experience.

Now, will you see some people post about great experiences with playing in a band? Yes, a few. But everyone is different and everyone lives in a different part of the world, for the most part. Sometimes luck happens and all is sunshine and lollipops. Other times, it most definitely is not that at all. It sounds like you ran into the wrong group and you experienced the latter. That is not your fault.

Playing in a band requires hard work, commitment of time, and the willingness to put up with others’ crap. That’s more often than not the way it is.

But it also requires having a thick skin and a strong personality, or not so great things can occur because others might try to dictate, mock, and dominate.

If you truly love music, then just play. Play with your favorite songs, play for yourself because it’s a joyous thing to do. And, in the future and if you choose, seek out people like yourself to play with. But only do the latter IF YOU TRULY WANT TO. There is no law or mandate that forces you to do anything you don’t want to do. Remember, this is your journey. You’re in control. Do what feels best. And if that means giving up music, then that’s the right choice for you.

But I sincerely hope you don’t, @Hann. I really wish you the best happiness with bass. Please give yourself time to think, feel and decide what your next step will be. Peace, my friend.

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38

Hey @Hann ,

Thank you so much for your honesty. It takes a lot of strength to open up about something so raw and difficult, and I just want to acknowledge that. I’m really sorry your experience turned out that way.

The truth is, a band should help you grow—not make you feel smaller. Playing with others is supposed to be a supportive, encouraging step forward, not something that tears you down. If you were made to feel like the “weak link” or became the target of mockery instead of guidance, then the issue lies in the group’s dynamic, not in your worth as a musician.

No one is ever truly “ready” the first time. We grow through experience, yes—but only in environments that offer patience, kindness, and space to learn. Stress, shame, and pressure do the opposite. They rob us of joy and confidence.

And yet—you showed up. You practiced. You gave it everything. That’s not failure. That’s resilience. That’s courage.

It’s more than okay to step back now, to rest, and to take care of yourself. Music will still be there when you’re ready—on your terms, at your pace. And when you do feel like trying again, I hope you find people who see your effort, your heart, and walk alongside you with encouragement, not judgment.

I’ll end with something from Mark Twain that has always stayed with me:
“They didn’t know it was impossible, so they did it.”
Sometimes, when we stop listening to fear—or to people who don’t lift us up—we take steps we never thought we could.

You’re not alone in this. Truly.

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You are not alone​:sweat_smile::hugs:

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40

@Hann, I am sorry for what you have gone through.

Yeah, that is familiar to 15-yo me, who really wanted to play in a band with his so-called friends. The difference? We all mostly sucked, but I felt so humiliated from some comments and the experience in general that I mostly did not play music for 15 years after. I went hiking, learnt climbing and enjoyed cycling a lot… It took Covid and lockdowns to convince me to pick up an instrument again. Not even the same! I chose bass instead of guitar to avoid being the same mediocre guitarist no band would ever need :sweat_smile:

A half-decent bassist is usually more useful than a mediocre guitarist, and one could say that I have had decent success with my current band choices. However, there is always some interpersonal friction, sometimes latent, sometimes open and clear. It is unavoidable, I guess…

Also, from reading again your post, I am not really sure if I understand everything right: were your ex-bandmates openly mocking you? If that’s the case, they are simply assholes.
But from a good chunk of the post, the vibe I get is that you were in fact your harshest critic.
But I don’t want to downplay your pain and feelings!
Bass is cool, but there are a ton of other instruments, or ways to make music, or great hobbies in general. Find what makes you happy!

Also it sounds like other people wanted you to join a band, perhaps more than yourself?

I think everybody sucked the first time playing with others. And possibly the second, third and so on. Maybe a bit less every time. I went through that phase as a child, at that age you care less - or not at all. I think it made it easier for me to try again as an adult, but getting to play with other is still a learning process… almost independent to the process of learning the instrument itself, imho. But yeah, one needs an environment that’s uplifting and forgiving, otherwise it is really painful

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41

Hello @Hann ,

It all depends on what you call “beginner” - I you think of a sport, no way you’re going to be better than beginner if you play intensively for 4 years.

Can you have fun after 4 years of tennis / Golf / bowling … for sure yes. Same for bass.

I don’t know about the others, but I’m far from being a genius, I’ll also very far from being an accomplished bassist… and probably will never be. A lot of people around here are putting a lot of time and effort in mastering bass and have demonstrated amazing progress BUT please kep in mind that what is published in the 50 songs challenge is probably the best take of a serie of 5-50 :wink:

btw, when I say that bass is easy it is because, you can probably survive with root / quarter note and still bring a lot of bottom up and percussion to any songs as in most case, the baseline is not recognizable. Playing the original will (most) probably sound better but the best is the enely of the good and If you’re able to keep the rytm with an ultra simplified bassline, this should do the trick

As far as playing in a band, it can be super fun and after 4 years, B2B course, I’m sure you can do it. It is then about finding the right people to do so -it is not so much about level than about having a shared objective, being respectful of each other… Don’t draw conclusions too fast from a poor experience

Enjoy bass !

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