Your Bass "Ah Hah!" Moments

I’m halfway through the course now, and I’ve had several little ah-hah moments throughout. One I remember is when I learned how to play the bass line to “With or without you” by U2. As a life-long U2 fan, this was kind of a big deal for me. Not only was I able to play an actual song, it was also a song by one of my favorite artists. After feeling confident enough, I looked up the song in my music collection and played along to it from beginning to end. Major feeling of accomplishment.

My biggest epiphany so far is all about scales. Having played some classic guitar and also some piano in my youth, I was already familiar with the concept. I had, however, no idea what scales were for. I always thought of playing scales as a boring but necessary tool to learn where the notes were on the fretboard (or on the keyboard), and I treated them as such: as a practice tool with no practical application.

Until! Until I reached Module 7 in the B2B course. Of course I knew I would eventually need to learn how to play scales on the bass, and again I thought of this as something I’d just have to go through in order to progress through the course. So OK, yeah yeah, this is the C Major scale, alright, let’s move on… Wait a minute, so now that I know how to play this scale, I can actually play any major scale, using the same shape, by just starting on a different note? OK, that’s pretty cool. Hold on, so by finding out what key a song is in, you can immediately play along to it by just choosing notes in the corresponding scale? Now that is really cool!

I eventually found myself enjoying the improvisation lessons immensely, something I would have never expected. Forty years after having been introduced to scales, in a matter of minutes, I suddenly understood what scales are for, what their purpose is. Not one of my music teachers had ever bothered to explain that to me, at least, not that I can remember.

I liked the improv lessons so much that I didn’t want them to stop, and I found the workouts just too short. Then I realized the backing track is not much more than a drum beat and Josh playing a very basic bass line. So, wait a minute, I have a Zoom B1Xon that has a drum machine and a looper… I ended up recording myself over a drum pattern, just playing a root note on the first beat for four bars, and then playing that back. Instant and infinite backing track for endless improvisation. Needless to say, I felt like a true musician :blush: :guitar:

9 Likes

I had a mini ah hah moment today when I realized that:

  • the 12th fret is halfway between the nut and the saddle
  • the 24th fret is halfway between the 12th fret and the saddle
  • the 5th fret is halfway between the nut and the 12th fret

Makes sense in hindsight, but didn’t click until today for some reason. :slight_smile:

3 Likes

I still didn’t finish the last 2 lessons of the B2B course because I got totally side-tracked by slapping for weeks now.
Love it!

Now I am able to play the “Take the Power back” riff by Rage against the Machine at ca. 100 bpm and realized that it is soooo true to practice slooOOooooOOooOOoow (…speaking in whale).
Speed came by itself.

4 Likes

Glorious stuff here @Mike_NL!
You reminded me of the first time I played a song I loved on an instrument - Metallica’s Nothing Else Matters (all open strings on my dad’s acoustic guitar).
That’s what got me into music!
Thanks for all this.

@akos - this didn’t click for me until a Physics Of Sound course in college. Blew my mind. I’d been playing for 10 years!!!

I love to hear this… First because of the success you feel/experience and then - it’s nice to know that from my Teaching High Horse, as I holler at folks to do difficult things (that I often forget to do myself)… that the difficult things actually work!

4 Likes

Well, through the work I’ve been doing with fretful (Fretful.io (fretboard visualizer) - Alpha release) I finally understood what modes are for and consequently how to derive any chord from any scale. And specially why they are so useful for improvising! This was a seriously mind exploding “ah hah!” moment for me.

So, take C major scale and its modes for instance:

C Ionian

Intervals: P1, M2, M3, P4, P5, M6, M7, P8
Ok, that’s a C major / C major 7


D Dorian

Intervals: P1, M2, m3, P4, P5, M6, m7, P8
Ok, that’s a D minor / D minor 7


E Phrygian


Intervals: P1, m2, m3, P4, P5, m6, m7, P8
Ok, that’s a E minor / E minor 7


F Lydian


Intervals: P1, M2, M3, A4, P5, M6, M7, P8
Ok, that’s a F major / F major 7


G Mixolydian


Intervals: P1, M2, M3, P4, P5, M6, m7, P8
Ok, that’s a G major / G dominant 7


A Aeolian (minor)


Intervals: P1, M2, m3, P4, P5, m6, m7, P8
Ok, that’s a A minor / A minor 7


B Locrian


Intervals: P1, m2, m3, P4, d5, m6, m7, P8
Ok, that’s a B diminished / B minor 7th flat 5


Still to figure out, why the hell are there only major and minor keys.

2 Likes

19 posts were split to a new topic: Keys other than major/minor?

Kind of silly since I should’ve known it before from playing guitar…

The way B2B was built and the explanation with the shapes, scales and so on there was a moment in the course in which I went: “urrrghhh, why didn’t I notice? pentatonic scale always fits because it’s the shared notes between major and minor.”
Maybe Josh even mentioned it in the video but it clicked a moment before.

I also frequently use the imaginary shapes to find my way on the fretboard but there wasn’t a singular “aha” moment. More accepting it as a good method to have remember less from the B2B course.

5 Likes

Finally had a little victory today and a small ah ha moment!
I’ve really been playing badly for a couple of weeks and it was starting to make me shy away from picking my bass up . I wasn’t getting any sort of satisfactory rhythm or timing even with tunes I previously prided myself on playing to a standard that made me happy .
So today I went all the way back to the beginning of my bass journey and it has all started to come back together. Baby steps only but I’m a lot happier than I have been in a while with it all and found myself playing for hours today in between messing around with my newly delivered Harley.
Smiling has been a rare occurrence for a good few weeks but today I managed to crack a few grins

11 Likes

Love this! Thanks for the good word.

3 Likes

@Mac That’s great, man! I go through periods like this also.

@Gio @JoshFossgreen Is what @Mac is talking about just part of the cycle of learning, plateauing, learning, plateauing,…

Is there a point where you get good enough where this isn’t an issue?
Does it just come down to playing everyday to keep your mind on it and keep plugging away?

5 Likes

My aha moment came just a few weeks ago. I’ve sent away one of my short scales to be painted (and it was my primary instrument for finger style playing) In its absence, I’ve been using my Stingray thats normally reserved for playing with a pick. Because of the “newness” of where that Stingray pickup is located, I guess I was subconsciously compensating and magically one day started playing a riff using the floating thumb technique, completely by accident!

I had tried this technique several times in the past and it never felt right. I always ended up on the thumb rest of the other bass, and never moved… But in that moment of accidental floating thumb, I realized how wonderful it was and knew instantly I would never go back!

6 Likes

Thank you @eric.kiser .

2 Likes

This is very familiar!

I think the feeling changes.
There may be a place where the feeling of “I’m not good at this” goes away, and you get so used to the troughs and crests of progress that you think “I’m not a bad player, and I’m not getting worse, but - oh dang, gotta sprinkle some fresh things in the routine…” The problem is the same.
Some kind of maintenance gets forgotten - a technique that you shed (shedded?) for months (for some special reason or tune) hasn’t been used in a while, and it’s rusty - whatever the reason, it happens.

Having different routines to work different muscles/memories/techniques/ideas is crucial at these points…

Or just time.

SO

6 Likes

That is so true.
I’m finding that I get some sort of tunnel vision when practicing something new and everything else fades into insignificance. Then when I go back to other songs I was comfortable playing the cooperation between my brain thoughts on what should be happening and my fingers dexterity has faded sometimes quite dramatically

4 Likes

+1 to everything @Gio said, @eric.kiser. I would also add that honestly, I do have my days where I don’t think I’m very good, and I know other pros go through that too - there’s a Lee Sklar interview I think about a lot where he was saying something to the effect of (paraphrase) “after 40+ years of recording in the studio, I still have thoughts the night before a session like ‘man I hope I don’t suck tomorrow, I hope I can think of something good to play’, etc.”

I think the distinction is when you’re more advanced, the suckage is more subtle and sometimes just in your head - obviously Lee Sklar doesn’t suck and never has and never will. But subjectively, I think the doubt and the feeling of plateauing is natural and I can definitely relate.

But -

I’d be curious if @Mac was really playing things worse, or if his ear just got better and started noticing flaws/issues that were already there, but now with a more refined ear he’s able to pick them out and start improving them. Not saying that’s necessarily what happened, but I think it’s a thing that happens to people in general.

I remember phases in my early days of playing where I thought “wow I sound so good, the stuff I’m playing is so cool,” and then I would listen back to recordings months or years later and be like, “oh wow, my rhythm wasn’t that good, and my tone was weird.”

Honestly even looking back on some of my cover videos from years ago on Youtube, I remember recording them and thinking “perfect, nailed it!” and then I watch them again now and notice mistakes or sloppiness I didn’t catch back then. Such is life!

14 Likes

That is the most insightful and inspirational thing I have heard in a while. Thanks for that.

10 Likes

Thank you for your replies @JoshFossgreen @eric.kiser and @Gio and a totally different perspective which has certainly got my brain thinking in a different way .
I had never even considered that someone of your abilities had “off” days and probably do not have the “ear” to pick one out if you did lol :joy:
I hadn’t thought my ear might be improving ( I hope so) and if it is a lot of that credit must go to your teaching oh Jedi master.
On another note, I do wonder if I did play everything perfectly if I’d get bored and quit :thinking:
P.S
I do suffer from the never quite being good enough as a child syndrome which probably doesn’t help

9 Likes

That’s interesting about Lee Sklar worrying about sucking in a studio session. It’s somewhat comforting to know that even people who you regard as super human are human after all.

6 Likes

Josh that was a great post.

What’s amazing here (and important for the beginners around here) is that there probably even was a time when Sklar did subjectively “suck”, very early on. And he didn’t let hit stop him, and he kept on working through it. 90% of mastering anything is perseverance.

Going in to the studio for 40 years, and still having doubts, but still going in and getting the job done - that’s what differentiates a professional from an amateur. The curse of Perfectionism can be one of my many demons too, and your point about becoming more and more self critical over time is a really good one to think about.

8 Likes

Oh yeah. I can definitely attest to this for myself. Thanks for this Josh. I’ve seen this happening but I didn’t quite have this perspective on it. It made perfect sense when I read it.

5 Likes