I would think about upgrading my own stuff if I REALLY liked the sound of new pickups or something like that but I don’t really trust other people’s work. So I’d probably only take an “upgraded” bass if it was cheaper or I could verify the work was done really well.
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That’s really interesting!
I have “upgraded” from P/J (EMG GZR) to HH (2x EMG 35TWX), and it sounds magnificent - not robotic at all. Unfair comparison, of course.
As I have used the letter X so much (the EMG X, not the Musk X) while talking to basically everybody, the parents of my girlfriend got me the EMG PJX for Christmas. I was truly flabbergasted!
Looking forward to installing the PJX … but will listen for “robotic” sound now.
I do have highmass bridges on all basses…
I mean to be fair it was probably more of a synth sound. It sounded ok but just didn’t really have any warmth to it after adding the bridge.
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That’s also interesting. In my opinion it should be exactly the other way around. The highmass should add “warmth” (let’s not mention sustain :-)))
It’s not all that likely to be cheaper if upgraded right? If we buy a used bass at say GC more often than not the model with better features will sell for more than the basic model. It’s pretty much the same with anything we buy. The deluxe version costs more. That’s pretty much just common sense isn’t it?
Verifying the work has been properly done I can certainly appreciate. But all that takes is spending the time to do it. Why buy locally without doing just that? If I’m selling something I want a prospective buyer to come to my place and check it out not just meet up in a parking lot somewhere. That makes no sense to me at all.
If you’re a “do it myself type” I can appreciate the desire to buy it plain vanilla and as inexpensively as possible but that would not be a typical buyer for a significantly upgraded instrument. It’s targeted to those who can’t do the work or simply don’t have the time for it. I just find some peoples reasoning about this somewhat odd.
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I’ll add a bit more here regarding sellers. Who we buy from is probably as important than the instrument itself. If the seller is a player himself or herself there’s a pretty good chance the instrument is sound and “as advertised” because they’ve been playing it. Any “issues” will more than likely be disclosed because the buyer knows where you live right? Honest players don’t typically try to screw others over.
If we’re buying from an inexperienced seller who knows little about what they actually have more caution is advised. That’s where I’ve found some very messed up stuff. I can usually tell just by looking at it without even having to play it. If it can be easily corrected that’s where I might find a bargain by pointing out the problems and making an offer based on that. That’s not at all unfair if I have to do some work on it.
I’ll just summarize by saying it’s to our benefit to become more astute buyers in the marketplace and better at recognizing value over price. Many prospective buyers have walked away from some great stuff simply because it wasn’t original and therefore a “parts build”. I don’t mean this to imply you are but there are many out there who are. All I’m saying is that believing well chosen upgrades lower the value of an instrument is counter intuitive most everything else we’ve learned in our lives and it’s primarily due to the language spoken in gear forums that causes it. JMHO
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That might be cause it’s not about true playability for some … but about “identity”, “image” and self esteem?
I see this with some hipster types over here in Germany, not only for basses or guitars, but also for bikes and other “lifestyle products”.
It’s not cool for some to own a good instrument, they prefer a “legendary” instrument in original state, as it looks good on the wall and makes you feel better on the internet 
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Unless someone is a luthier I’m going to be suspect of any work done. Especially if they are selling it. I didn’t like the tone of my Ibanez but it took a lot for me to walk away from it. If someone is selling their upgraded bass there might be a reason.
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That’s kinda like the “true” sound of pickups. Active EMG are active pickups not passive with active EQ so the magnets are intentionally weaker than normal passive pickups and with the pickups being active EMG can get much better “true” tone with magnet interference plus boosting the signal at the same time, that’s why they are no any hotter than the normal pickups the X series are louder and more headroom.
In addition, since it’s an active pickup , the 9v power from battery is used to reverse the polarity and create the hum cancellation. Very unique and better tone than one would expect from such an affordable aftermarket upgrades.
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Thank you for pointing that out.
I guess if that’s a legit reason for them then it is what it is. I realize when I sell something I own that my typical buyer will not always come from the masses but rather the few who get exactly what I have. I’m not offering originality I’m offering higher value.
Whether or not any prospective buyer sees it that way isn’t my concern any more than it is for others who sell something that’s somewhat unique. I’ve been a player my entire life so my gear is built to play not just display and I can afford to be patient until the right buyer and I connect.
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I like your attitude!
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An alternate explanation is that manufacturers have a very good idea of which upgrades people are willing to pay for. The ones they don’t sell are the ones that people don’t want to pay for originally, and most of the time that doesn’t change for secondhand.
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It’s just that I don’t add upgrades purely for vanity I do it because I believe they add value to the instrument. Others must believe so as well including manufacturers who have continued to offer upgraded versions of their more basic models in some cases using the very same upgrades I’ve been using for over 10 years.
For example. Gibson began using Babicz Bridges on several of their models and other manufacturers have also used them on their higher end models. They’re not an oddity. The same with my Bill Lawrence J45 pickups. Fender used a version of them Bill designed and built for them using Samarium Cobalt magnets and Fender used them on their top of the line Jazz Bass for a while. Those Wilde J45 are the same pickup but with Alnico II magnets instead of Samarium Cobalt. So again, not exactly and oddity but then how many players know who Bill Lawrence was?
I’m not here to scold anyone but what I’ve noticed is many buyers are more name conscious than value conscious. They’ll buy Seymour Duncan, or Lindy Fralin, or Fender pickups without realizing that if not for a guy like Bill Lawrence those companies and/or aftermarket products might not even exist. It was Bill’s work, research, and designs back in the 70s that kicked off the market for replacement pickups to begin with. His bass pickups are every bit as good as his guitar pickups and they sell for half the price on many other boutique pickups because he’s always sold direct to the player and his widow Becky and daughter Shannon have kept his company and traditions alive following his death 10 years ago.
So thank you. I firmly believe we should all play what we prefer I just like to spread the word about aftermarket values I have found just like anyone else so thanks for listening to the experiences of an old man who comes here both to learn more and share my own experiences. I feel this forum offers far more value to the average bassist than other site like TalkBass and The Gear Page do and I hope that it continues as it does now.
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For me listening to the “old man” makes more sense than to listening to the fanboys. So thank you, really!
Reason: I value experience more than some kind of blindly followed dogma without a clear rational, which only has one “value”: to be part of something or some group.
This is why I try to build up my own experience.
Make, fail, learn!
I do like to discuss stuff or - like somebody put it so eloquently - “every damn thing has to be a nuclear navel gazing exercise, regardless of the propensity of some”
I just want to understand EVERYTHING … that’s why my parents named me Whying Dutchman.
Of course I could do it the easy way and just follow the stream … and buy a Fender
But I think that somebody like Bill Lawrence also decided for himself: if you want to get to the source, you have to swim against the stream!?
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But they do offer upgraded versions of most every base model they produce. In same cases even using the same upgrades or ones that are quite similar as I posted above.
Much of the time it comes down to cost which is why upgraded versions tend to cost so much more than base versions and why we as buyers can more easily upgrade our own instruments spending far less to do so than the cost of a deluxe version of the same instrument.
In an interview some years ago the CEO of Fender explained how even a $5 increase in material costs for an instrument added $50 to it’s retail MSRP. As crazy as that may sound coming from a background in corporate management and also since becoming a securities and business analyst I understand it. It add to the multiples of markup at each level from manufacturer to distributor to retail merchant all based on their needs for a certain profit margin.
IMHO any one of us can take a simple well established design like a PBass or JBass that cost us $500, spend another $500 on upgrades and neck finishing and have the equivalent of a bass that retails for $2000 or more. But I also agree. That bass will never be worth $2000 or even $1000 in the resale market because of how we think and tend to value things more by name brand than true intrinsic value. It is what it is and will be unless we as players/buyers choose to change this.
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LOL…we must be twin sons of different mothers. Both of my grandfathers (and one was a native Dutchman) said the same of me because of my inquisitiveness when I was a boy. I always needed to know why. None of that has changed over time either…haha.
We could all just buy Fender and leave them as is. After all Fender basses are the voice of thousands of recordings and live concerts. But even Leo Fender knew he could improve upon his original designs and he did. As a result we have him to thank for both Music Man and G&L guitars and basses which without him would not exist today.
Bill Lawrence was a German born jazz guitarist who played under the name Billy Lorenz. His initial work with designs was through his work in Germany with Framus. He was never happy with the pickups and electronics on his guitars so after coming to America he set out to design and build better pickups for electric instruments. His very first product was actually an electric piano.
Over his career he worked with both Gibson and Fender on products they produced like the 1970s Gibson L6s guitar and the Ripper Bass and later with Fender and their Jazz Basses. It was during this same time that he began to design, produce, and sell his own brand of replacement pickups using unconventional twin blade designs for both single coil and humbucking models. Other future winders like Larry DiMarzio and Kent Armstrong apprenticed with him and many others benefited from his research and his knowledge which he always willingly shared with others. He was the Godfather of replacement pickups and I’m wearing a tee shirt right now that declares it.
There are many current innovations that owe their origin to men like Bill Lawrence and Leo Fender as well who doesn’t get enough credit for his work on pickups and electronics. To not acknowledge this is the same as ignoring Chuck Berry’s contributions to rock and roll. We don’t get to where we are today without them.
JMHO…
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Some aftermarket bridge that use steel saddles may present tonally as being “colder” sounding. If available a swap to brass saddles may provide a warmer tone at the expense of clarity and crispness in the attack. Babicz has done this offering brass replacement saddles for their FCH Bridges.
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As @soulman stated, the more astute/informed a buyer/player is, decisions on purchases of upgraded instruments can be much more informed and better evaluated presale.
Upgrades are installed commodities, most often hardware and/or electronics. If they are included in a sale either gratis or at a substantially discounted cost, it’s a really good day for the buyer. Many times sellers will offer to remove upgrades in order to return an instrument to its stock config, or they will offer to include the loose stock parts as part of the deal. Either way, it works.
I wouldn’t hesitate one second to buy a bass with upgrades if it were something I really wanted. It pays to vet a seller with presale questions, of course, but there are lots a great upgraded bass deals floating around post some informed due diligence.
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So, the funny thing is that there are quite a few bass players here that make their own pickups, some are “underground legends”.
I read their stories and the stories of those who got custom pickups with great fascination.
My heart is always with the pioneers, never with the mindless followers, I guess. But I am reluctant to start making PUs myself … it is an art as much as it is science.
Do you know where he came from in Holland? Everybody knows everybody here - you should come over and get to know your roots!
Gonna read up about him!
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Unless you have a defect bridge, the only reason to change or upgrade is for the ease of use (intonation) or pure aesthetic.
From experience the only big difference is going from traditional to saddleless bridge and so far only one company is doing that.
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