The Circle of Fifths is my jam, the most useful tool for music theory ever. In four decades of studying music theory, it’s by far the tool I use the most as
a tool to organize practicing scales and arpeggios through all twelve keys (used in every practice session)
a tool for songwriting and seeing the connections and relationships among keys
a tool for seeing the groupings of major, minor and diminished chords in a key
a tool for seeing the order of relative brightness and darkness of modes within a key
a tool for seeing the relationships of cadences and tonicizations of chords (V-I, secondary dominants, secondary 7ths)
Guitar Dashboard is my favorite CoF web app. Use the “Tunings” menu at the top of the screen to change the fretboard to bass (including 5-, 6-, and 7-string bass variants).
I’m a fan, lol
The moment I understood how it worked was a game changer. Like seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. And the infinite possibility of arranging exercises
I need a favor. Could somebody please make that epiphany causing statement that makes the circle of fifths make sense. The more I read about it and the more videos I watch the more confused I get. Is there a circle of 5ths for dummies book? I get that the next note in the circle is the 5th note in the scale of whatever note you started with. What is the point of this circle?
This is quite common and some YouTube videos only cloud the issue.
Check out the Mike George videos @micklerd posted links to on December 22 in this thread.
If you think that the circle of fifths is confusing wait until you get to the music theory involving modes
As an individual that is frequently asked to either correct or produce a lead sheet for a song, at acoustic jam sessions I attend weekly, I find it invaluable. Most songs can be broken down into 4, 5, or six harmonius chords. In any given Key the circle can show you at a glance what those most harmonious chords are for that key. Or you can quite easily produce a scale for a given key should you need it for any reason such as producing a chord diagram for a chord you do not have a notation for.
I am sure there are others here that have other uses for it but the above are my main reasons for finding it useful. YMMV
The point of the Circle of Fifths is to show the relationships among chords, keys, and scales. All of them.
You are already using the concepts and relationships embodied in the Circle of the Fifths in the music you make and play whether you know it or not. The Circle of Fifths just makes these relationships explicit.
It’s the musical equivalent of a calculator. You don’t need a calculator to solve math problems, but it’s a tool available for you to use to save wasting your brain power on low-order, “2+2=4” math problems. Similarly, the Circle of Fifths is a tool that takes on the cognitive load of figuring out the theoretical relationships among chords, keys, and scales, so you can focus on higher-order creative thinking, like musical expression, groove, etc.
And like a calculator, it is only as useful to you as your need for it.
Most people get a lot of mileage out of The Circle of Fifths for its most practical applications, to answer common questions like:
What’s an easy way I can organize practicing scales/chords/triads, etc. in all twelve keys?
What is the number and order of sharps/flats for the key of __?
What is the I, IV, and V chords in the key of __?
What’s the ii-V-I progression in the key of __?
What are my available chords to use in the key of __?
What’s the relative minor key of __?
What are the notes in the pentatonic scale in the key of __?
What is the [m2/M3/m6, etc.] interval from the root note of __?
How do I transpose a chord progression in the key of X to the key of Y?
The vast majority of musicians only use the Circle of Fifths for questions like these, which is plenty useful. But this does limit them from seeing the full power of the tool.
The Circle of Fifths has much more sophisticated uses, if you need them. For example, the Circle of Fifths is indispensable for solving problems when songwriting:
constructing complex chord progressions
understanding cadence options
making smooth key changes
using advanced chord substitutions (e.g., modal interchange, tritone substitution).
The deeper your music-theory knowledge becomes, the more applications and uses for the Circle of Fifths you see and experience.
Genuinely curious to know: what in the Mike George videos “clouds the issue”? I thought it was exceptionally well done (which is why I posted it). But perhaps I suffer from “expert blindness” and don’t see what would be challenging for someone new to using the Circle of Fifths. Can you elaborate on your statement?
Do you have an example of a YouTube video or website that explains the Circle of Fifths in a manner you feel explains it better?
I don’t think @Celticstar was saying Mike George videos cloud the issue. I believe he might have been citing George as a good resource for explaining the Circle of Fifths. But I could definitely be wrong.
Just watched the Mike George circle of fifths for songwriting. All the other stuff he mentions: Ionian, myxolodian, aeolian etc, makes it more confusing.
Does Josh have a CoF lesson in the B2B course or a separate lesson?
I was afraid someone was going to mention modes and you are 101% correct about being confusing.
Learning the different modes is a completely different learning path and IMHO I have never found a need for it. YMMV Do a search on the forum for modes and you will find a lot of information, and some heated discussions
Just stick with the Ionian mode to begin with.
This is the mode depicted in the circle of fifths charts.
I find modes very worthwhile. If absolutely nothing else, playing through the modes of a major or minor scale provide excellent fretting hand technique exercises, up and down the neck. But the value of modes transcend the technical, and provides bases for bass line soloing, alternative fingerings, and more.
But it’s player’s choice whether to mess with modes. Most popular songs, old and new, are playable without knowing a thing about modes.
But knowing how and why modes play an integral part in the construction of some popular songs makes understanding how and why modes are used interesting, at least to me.
The how and why in your statement, related to song construction, are the things I still have not been able to wrap my head around or find a video on that explains these two factors.
I just spent 1-1/4 hours searching for these again on YouTube and still drew a blank.
I do realize that modes are important in a song’s composition but I guess what I am looking for is information on when a specific mode, other than Ionian, would be used within a song, and preferably with popular song examples of their use.
There are lots of sites that list the modes used in popular songs. Just note that these are songs from many genres, and not everyone might be familiar with some tunes others consider popular.
Here are a just a couple of links:
Search for “popular songs that use modes” for more examples.
Honestly I would just consider them like scales; they tend to have different emotive feels to their intervals. Much like people broadly classify Major as “happy, upbeat” and Minor as “sad, downbeat”, you can make similar associations with the other modes. For example, Lydian being a more upbeat/bright mode than the major scale. I usually think of Mixolydian as being kind of wistful or bittersweet. Locrian has been associated with “evil” but that’s a stretch I think. Etc etc.
Basically you need to just listen and form your own opinions for uses. I very rarely use them while noodling myself but YMMV. I routinely practice one mixolydian riff but that’s about it.
OK this is starting to come together for me now.
The christybannerman site was a great help and I will pursue this further.
By the way I do know how to create the scales for each of the modes so that is not an issue for me.
Am I right in thinking that modes are used to set the overall feeling/mood of a song and would be a great tool for composers?
I have written songs in the past but in a lot of cases was never totally happy with the overall feeling/mood of the chord progressions for what I was trying to get across. If I am right it was probably because they were all written in Ionian mode. Is this a fair thought on my behalf?
This could be a game changer for me.
Thank you so much for the links.
I am totally with you when it comes to actually grasping what these modes do and how to use them. I think it is a process and at some point it’ll click. One eureka moment for me was when I looked at a well-known little motif and wondered how it would sound in a different mode (and how tiny but important the difference was). I just recorded this little video to illustrate that point (no editing or brushing up or anything):
Of course, I don’t know what you have composed, but I’d wager a guess that some of it was (unknowingly) in a minor mode (aeolian or dorian). I think all of us composing or just noodling will have used modes without really knowing what we did
