Fake/Replica/counterfeit basses - they're out there, are they a problem?

Gear
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TLDR: I think there is starting to be a counterfeit bass problem in the used market - especially craigslist and FB marketplace.

Ok, this is going to take some explanation. It ties to together at the end.

Part 1: Retired from the military a few years back. I’m a watch guy, but mostly Hamilton level stuff. Wife wanted to get something great for retirement gift and found a deal on a Rolex Datejust 126300 rhodium, super low key for a Rolex, and my style. But then someone talked to her about how prevalent Rolex fakes are so she had to get an expert AD to verify it was real. I just found out this story almost 4 years later this week. I knew all about “rep watches” so I went on DHgate to show her how easy it is to get a sub $100 watch that is 80% the same as a genuine, and that the general public will never spot as a fake. If you use a different channel and put your budget in the $500-700 range you can get a replica that is so accurate that an expert will actually have to remove the caseback and rotor and stop the hairspring from running so they can get a good look at the balance wheel. If it takes a watchmaker 10 minutes of disassembly and a magnifier to tell it’s a replica - well that’s scary good.

Part 2: So then some trickery of android, cookies and internet black magic made DHgate suggest basses for me. Holy crap. There are a LOT of counterfeits out there. Fender, Rick’s and MusicMan mostly. Almost all under $300 and none over $400. But if you want a replica of a limited edition Fender American Pro PJ with Roasted Maple Neck in Daphne Blue with a maple fretboard? - yeah that’s $321.88 with free shipping. And at first I thought this was odd - but then it clicked - maybe the easiest to find fake bass were Squiers.

Part 3: So for a while now, I’ve seen this guy on Craigslist about 80 miles from me and he always has basses for sale. Mostly higher end Squier stuff (not Affinity) and some occasional others. I mean he’s got 21 different basses listed just this month! I don’t think I have any local music stores that have that many basses period, much less almost all Squier. So I don’t have any proof - but I think these are fakes he’s getting from DHgate or another Chinese maker (buying more than one gets you a discount). If he’s going straight from a factory and cutting out DHgate these would be even cheaper. He prices them to sell on Craigslist - always about $100 less than Sweetwater or Guitar Center, but also $100 over what a fake would cost. If he sells even 10 of these a month - he could be netting $12,000 a year in profit. He’s smart about it - chooses basses that are good for new players who might not be savvy buyers and notice something off, but at the higher end for a beginner, and at a great price its hard to pass up. If he was trying to sell those Fender American Pro’s he’d make way more profit potentially - but his buyers would be very savvy and he’d be more likely to get called out.

End result: I’m just going to be very wary of buying used, especially private party, and undertake some due diligence by looking up serials, and really inspecting things. I wonder if this has made it to Reverb? Ebay must be sprinkled with fakes here and there too? It’s even possible that someone bought a fake unknowingly - hated it cause it sucked - and are re-selling it now having absolutely no idea why it sucked or that it is a fake.

*So I have NO proof other than informed speculation that my local craigslist seller is doing anything wrong - so I’m not going to link to his offerings. It’s just all suspect as hell - some of the models I see him list on CL are absolutely available on DHgate - same colors, even same stickers in some cases.

Here are a few of those DHgate fakes (I am not advocating buying these, especially after some web sleuthing to see opinions of those who have bought them - even if they look identical - at the very least they have crap strings, tuning machines, electronics and terrible fretwork. Basically all the stuff you want a high end bass to have - these don’t have it, they just look like they do.) Not to mention that DHgate is just dodgy period:

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Caveat emptor!

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Holy Crap! That looks scary good.

Growing up in South East Asia, I’m familiar with the Counterfeit watches. I own a few fake IWC and a real one. They look very similar but definitely feel different. The fake one is noticeably lighter.

It’s a real issue I don’t know how you can stop this. It gets worse when, like you said, it’s being sold as genuine but a swindler. When you buy direct you know it’s a fake, but when you buy from a private seller it’s different.

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Yeah, and watch replicas have gotten significantly better in the last 5 years. For instance some now add tungsten to cases and bracelets now so that they’re within a few tenths of a gram of genuine weights. The sub $200 dhgate and AliExpress stuff is still discernible by someone who knows that particular genuine watch well, but not by most of the public. But the higher tier 500-700 reps have not a single reliable visual tell on the outside of the watch and weight is same. You have to go looking into the movement. For instance, Rolex uses a unique design for balance wheels that requires a proprietary tool to regulate. That still hasn’t been copied, but you have to dismantle the watch to figure that out. Even watch aficionados can’t tell - even though they claim they can. There are tons of Reddit threads where someone posts a genuine watch and all the experts criticize it’s “tells” as a fake, when in fact it’s 100% genuine.

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That ultra in Arctic white makes my fingers tingle. I get That it’s a clone, that purists will know it’s a clone. But i might still get one. That thing is low-key fire at that price. And if i get upset and smash it, it wont be financially debilitating.

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To buy it for personal use I think it’s not a problem. Buy it and selling it as genuine instrument is not cool.

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Don’t forget, these genuine Fender models come with cert and deluxe model case ($230+). If seller didn’t have these included in the sale I would worry that it was stolen or fake. I wonder if DHGate is making up serial numbers or reusuing ones Fender has already issued.

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It’s a non existence serial number.

Yeah I agree. The case is what creates the distraction and kinda seal the deal for many people. $500-550 investment with the case and they list for 1200-1500+.

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Yeah. This is why, in the other thread, I was saying a non-existent Fender serial was a red flag.

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True! My argument on that thread was why make a fake questionable instrument that’s quite rare when you can fake a much easier to recognize model that raise much less questions.

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Those are some pretty impressive counterfeit basses. I don’t understand how this much effort is financially practical. Cost of living in China must be vastly different to anything I may have assumed.

I would love to get my hands on one of these to see if I could tell the difference.

Im kind of floored here. I never expected this to be what it is.

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It’s not super surprising to me. There is a manufacturer in Hong Kong called Shijie who make Fender style instruments at MIA Fender quality for under $1k. For $1200 they will make you one with a Nitro finish.

They used to be about $600; the price has come up since everyone started raving.

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I’m pretty sure that you can tell the difference. USA basses usually requires a lot more hands on labor to make it. There are a lot more touches than the imports.

Unless of course fender tooling up the cnc machine oversea to produce bodies and necks there, then it’s just the matter of sneaking out the imperfect ones and finish them up.

Here in socal the home of Fender, I see listing from people who works there and taking out unbranded / unfinished necks to sell from time to time. You get the real fender just not the official ones. :joy:

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Agree! That’s hustling people…

Yes, that would be interesting. I mean, these are (as instruments) more expensive than Harley Bentons and I’d be curious to see what level of craftsmanship this gets you.

Something like this, for instance:
Custom Shop Handwork 4 Strings Electric Bass Guitar Rosewood Fingerboard Sunburst Guitarra Relics By Hands Gitaar From Hinahina, $350.76 | DHgate.Com

This would be like getting your own make-believe 60s Jazz…
The fact that they are labeled “Fender” would be secondary to me here; I do realize this is mainly done to trick someone into believing it is the real deal (and to cheat Fender and Fender owners). I would be totally transparent about this if I were to re-sell…

It’s funny they never show a photo of the entire bass, and never the headstock from the front. On the other hand, they even fake the little Fender stickers that they put on their new models.

Finally, they also claim (overseas) shipping and VAT is included in the prices they quote; however, Danish customs might have a different opinion on that :crazy_face: Imagine they would believe it’s an original Fender from the 60s and make me pay VAT and customs on THAT :joy:

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Ugh. You’d take a beating in that

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From what I’ve read, you’ll need to replace pickups, strings, electronics, tuning machines, bridge, shield the cavity, do a complete fret job… And that’s IF the neck isn’t trash, and if the finish isn’t trash. Ist a $300+ gamble that will need at least another 300-400 to make playable. So now you’re in the 700-750 range. Might as well get a nice Sire?

Oh yeah, its illegal to import, so if it gets seized at customs you just flushed 3 bills down the toilet with absolutely no recourse.

I wouldn’t.

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That’s why dhgate is filled with squires. No questions on an instrument at that level

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Just a woolgathering thing, really. I’m pretty much already committing myself to a schecter elite 4. Plus i got real fear of buying from China, not only does it take forever-you get what you pay for.
I found this out by shopping like a billionaire on temu…

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:rofl::joy::rofl:

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I’ll admit I’m tempted just to see what you get, and give everyone here a report, but the thought of customs is what gives me pause.

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I was kind of tempted to buy a Chinese copy Lemmy Rickenbacker as a wall hanger. At $350 as opposed to $11500 on Reverb you couldn’t really go wrong. If it works, great and if it doesn’t still looks good

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