How can I be heard through the mix ( a non scientific approach to sound)

Gear
61

Well, you certainly gave me a lot to think about, @Gorch . . . :slight_smile:

Thanks and thumbs up, Joe :+1:

4 Likes
62

Thank you sir. Mission accomplished.

4 Likes
63

Fair dinkum mate, how do you know all this stuff.
I can barely her the difference when I turn my tuning knob on my bass let alone all this other stuff.
You explain it so well I almost get it.
Thank you

3 Likes
64

Thank you. When you hear something you like, you will know it. I had the benefit of playing with lot’s of different people and talking to a lot of sound guys. They were all awesome musicians that had patience with me while I was figuring all this stuff out. Since I’m a bass player, not a sound engineer, I learned it like a bass player instead of a sound engineer.
Play on different stuff whenever you can. You will learn a lot.

3 Likes
65

Another thing you can do is talk to the bass players of local bands when they do a gig at some local establishment. They are almost always willing to talk about gear, tone, skills, etc.

3 Likes
66

@Gorch and @DaveT Thank you both for taking the time you’ve put in this thread. This is such great information and it’s really hard to find without knowing exactly what you’re searching for and even then the answers can be very convoluted and subject to large amounts of insistent opinion. Once again, thank you.

@Gorch Considering the examples you’ve given, what is fair to expect from a 210 paired with a 115 compared to a 212? It seems like that combination would give you more punch than the 12’s and more ‘width’ (?) for the low B.

@DaveT I did a whole bunch of research into the ICE Power boards a little while back. They have become so prolific, it would be easier to list who doesn’t use them than who does. I was really surprised that Mesa Boogie was using them.

What I want is a 500 Watt ICE Power power amp that I can use with whatever pre amp I want. They’re out there, if you look hard enough, but they aren’t cost efficient at all. It ends up being cheaper to buy a full head.

A few years ago Quilter Labs told someone they were watching the TalkBass forums and were listening to what the people wanted in the way of a stand alone power amp but in the end they put out the Bass Block 800. It’s supposed to be a great amp head but it wasn’t what people were asking for.

4 Likes
67

@eric.kiser i think you can get the boards at parts-express.com if you don’t mind putting it in a box and adding connectors. Last year I ran across a home theater Products company that was just selling an IcePower in a box to run passive subwoofers with an integrated receiver. I can’t find it at the moment, but I could dig it out. I would be very surprised if the Quilter unit has Ice since Pat’s previous empire was Quilter Sound Company (QSC). I’d guess he has some amp technology in his pocket. Another good one are the OEM modules in many powered pro PA speakers, the DigiMod from Powersoft. Also top top in quality.

4 Likes
68

Yeah as I mentioned, for class D amps, in retrospect I am not surprised at all everyone is using the same power amp stage. Due to how they work the power amp stage should ideally have zero contribution to the actual tone of a class D amp (or put another way, unlike the other types of power amps, the only likely tonal contributions of a class D power amp would generally be bad.)

So if someone is making a high quality one, it would make a ton of sense to just buy that and focus on the preamp. This is also probably why so many new small amps have cool additional features in the preamps.

4 Likes
69

Yeah. Ghent Audio does this.

Oh, no! My bad. I didn’t mean to imply that. I am pretty sure the BassBlock 800 power amp was built from the ground up by Pat. I know he did it all in house.

2 Likes
70

That is also exactly what I’d like to know, @eric.kiser

GMTA . . . :wink:

Cheers, Joe

3 Likes
71

I didn’t think you were implying anything. I’m just flapping my jaw.

3 Likes
72

I actually tried something similar one time. The results were sub optimal to say the least. It sounded ok to the crowd I guess because nobody said anything. The guitarist and I both noticed that something wasn’t right. Things just weren’t matching up.
Having said that, there are companies that produce cabinets with mixed drivers. Mesa Boogie comes to mind. Also, there are artists that do it professionally. Victor Wooten comes to mind. In both cases,however, I’m sure they put a lot more thought into what they were doing than I did. For me, it didn’t work so well even though all cabs were the same brand and same series. Not saying it’s not worth experimenting with, I just decided it was too much like work and I didn’t want to expend anymore brain waves on it.
I’d say look around. Play as much different kinds of gear as you can. Go with what brings you ever closer to your ideal tone.

4 Likes
73

Too late. I expended some brain waves… I think if I were able to EQ the cabs separately it would have worked.

2 Likes
74

@gorch @eric.kiser @DaveT @howard

If I ever break into the big-time, I’m hiring you guys as my sound consultants. I gave up trying to comprehend any of the information in this thread.

(Now, back to my measly Rumble 100 to practice) :rofl:

5 Likes
75

Time well spent! I’ll follow your lead. See you in the big time!

4 Likes
76

I would take that job in a heartbeat!

3 Likes
77

Ok so I am enjoying this thread. Very interesting, but I have to be the jerk who points out that (George) Ohm’s law is V=IR for dc or V= I(R+jX) for ac. Voltage equals current times resistance. You were referring to the power equation ; Watts equals volts times amps.
You can also increase your volume by putting cabinet against a wall or in a corner and effectively making room a big cabinet but you would be subject to room dimensions affecting tonal quality.
I apologize for trivial correction but misinformation propagates.

3 Likes
78

Human hearing is part of the problem. We hear 1kHz much more efficiently than other frequencies. It’s a bell curve on a logarithmic scale. I was in a recording studio years ago and our instructor was sweeping frequencies and we would drop our raised hand when we couldn’t hear it any longer. I got above 19kHz. He told us that the amps were cranked just to put out a miniscule level in a professionally designed room. 20 Hz to 20kHz is normally quoted as range of human hearing. But modern day humans especially come nowhere close in our noisy society. Bass guitar is in a range where we are inefficient in hearing. That’s why people refer to feeling the bass as much as hearing it. If interested ask me about 4-6 Hz.

3 Likes
79

Most manufacturers produce a large selection of rigs in the 400 to 800 watt range. That’s because it’s plenty. An extra 100 watts really isn’t a big deal at that point. Go for the tone that pleases you. If you do that, you will get much more enjoyment from playing bass.
Play different gear when you get an opportunity. without even trying you will learn what an “Ampeg” sound is, etc.

5 Likes
80

Just to continue this game, here is the Aguilar Tonehammer 350 and there in the center is our good ol’ friend the IcePower 125ASX2 board, the same one as in the Darkglass Microtubes 500. The board on the front is by Aguilar and handles EQ and drive. I think the 12 little screws that held the cover on may have had some light thread locking compound on them to stop them from vibrating out. I may be sorry I did this later.

Here’s where it gets interesting. I pulled the data sheet on the IcePower 125ASX and it says that it provides 450 Watts “typical” output. Here we have one manufacturer marketing a product with that identical board at 500 Watts (for $600) and the other at 350 Watts (for $579). If you want the 500 Watt version of the Tonehammer the price goes up to $790 and then they have the 700 Watt version for $945. I didn’t measure the actual power they are putting out, so I don’t know if the power stage is being choked down somehow for the 350, but I doubt it would be.

I wouldn’t ding anyone for cheating their spec up to 500 from 450. They could actually get that number depending on how they measure compared to the data sheet; it’s an insignificant increase on the log scale of power and it probably does have that much as peak power above the “typical” rating.

It’s possible, however, that the Aguilar may be slightly more powerful than it’s rated and if that’s true a pretty good bargain if you prefer their tone. It could be that Aguilar prefers to rate their product comfortably within the range of the power stage rather than on the edge.

There’s an interesting line item on the IcePower spec. It gives 450 Watts when powered by 230 Volts, but for us in the US when powering at 115V the typical power drops to 380 Watts. Soooo, for me, the Tonehammer spec is closer to what I’m actually getting.

Aguilar
Aguilar3152×3024 2.63 MB

4 Likes