Learning Musical Intervals: What and when?

I have looked through prior posts on intervals but they tend to go deep down the theory rabbit. I am hoping that you folks might offer your reflections on learning intervals, as I am struggling a bit.

I have not taken B2B (yet). I am working off of video and PDF materials from this site, along with some other online/YouTube resources. Based upon Josh’s “What to Learn (in order),” a Bedroom Plunker should understand music intervals. Yet, in his “Music Theory You Actually Need,” it states that a Bar Band Bassist should know them.

I get the impression that learning intervals helps in the long run, with “fretboard navigation.” And that it ultimately involves sight and sound (ear). What I would appreciate hearing from others is how incremental was learning intervals for those of you without a music theory background?

I didn’t find the free resources in Josh’s links to be very helpful and other YouTube videos and graphics didn’t do it either. This seems to be one of those areas where mneumonics don’t serve me (other than seeing numbers or spaces between notes). The patterns, scales and rhythms seem easy compared to grasping this. Is this something I should be seeing/hearing in practicing scales or playing songs now? Or is this something that will gradually come to me (“oh, THAT’S a perfect 4th”)? I would appreciate hearing how you approached learning this as you progressed - struggles and all? Were there steps? Thx.

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It’s not really about learning the theories per se, You’d want to learn as many songs as you can and once you learn and play enough a favorite pattern or fill choices will emerge, if you care enough to know what they are, then you’ll look them up. :rofl:

I do that sometimes. I can read music but don’t know theories, for sure not enough to recognize on the fly, but when I play enough I know what Dorian mode, and Locrian, etc, when I play. Pino doesn’t know these either but he sure used a lot of tasty modes.

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I think the way I would put this is to break it down by stages of learning.

Absolute beginner (where you are at now): Don’t overthink this, get in to B2B or another good course (though B2B is the best :slight_smile: ) and get the fundamentals down.

Beginner (i.e. in the course, learning): Learning what scales and intervals are and why they are important is next.

Intermediate (i.e. in the 1-2 years post-B2B): How the intervals fit together and how songs operate in things like chord progressions is important to understand. Maybe a start on walking basslines (which are all about moving around in intervals).

Advanced: Nothing else really matters fundamentally more than the way the intervals fit together, and building things with them.

A lot also depends on your goals. If your goal is to understand and play the music of your favorite bands, a more basic understanding is fine. If it is to compose new music, you will want more.

Also, as @Al1885 mentioned, for some musicians the theory isn’t necessary as they have all of this internalized by sound and instinct.

I am definitely not among them, and for the rest of us, learning the theory is a comparatively easy shortcut to avoid needing to be a virtuoso :rofl:

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Hey there @Stevis - good question about the intervals, especially if it seems a bit conflicted in the Josh Pantheon of Theory.

First round of intervals necessary (why the bar-band bassist needs them) -
You need to know interval numbers (also called the nashville number system, but also used in jazz/pop - from the major scale, and the adjustments) so that you can follow a chord chart or learn a new song quick if someone is yelling it to you from the bandstand.

That’s the most fundamental, useful, practical use of intervals.

The technical names and identification by ear is not necessary at any playing level, really. It’s something that is nice, but isn’t really worth the focused study if it would mean taking time away from fundamentals/playing to beats/learning songs/rehearsing with a band/etc.

Also, it’s the kind of thing that will come with learning tons of basslines, and then using that with the chord-changes number system from above. It builds and combines and leads to knowing the sounds and identifying intervals with the ear.

To get a feel for what I mean with the chord numbering system (and seeing how that works with intervals) you can check out this article on blues playing (which is derived from Josh’s blues bass video) -

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The free stuff is good but just a taster. Bite the bullet and buy the course asap

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Thanks, folks. I appreciate the context and your suggestions. Maybe some of you can appreciate “coming back to” actually learning something about music the second time around and not letting it kick your butt. I want to make sure that I don’t skip something as I go, just because it frustrates me. And as I continue to practice scales and songs, I wanted to get a better feel for where the interval stuff fits and how it builds on the foundations of notes, scales, shapes and patterns. I have a better sense of the incremental approach to those and it’s fit with playing songs, whereas the interval stuff seems more abstract at the moment.

There’s a good video on intervals on guitar and the instructor states that it can be challenging at first to “anchor” intervals to the other foundations you have started to build. This seems a bit like learning basic math, then algebra and then advanced statics, in terms of building blocks.

Intervals on Guitar

This is the stuff that “shut me down” and turned me off as a kid. So, I appreciate the way Josh approaches music pedagogy, when it comes to theory (e.g., his goof on circle of fifths). And the graphics that show the fretboard make his videos so much more impactful to me than some person merely playing their bass on camera. But even seeing these intervals in a graphic doesn’t click with me like the other stuff.

As some of you suggested, I need to reconcile my “music mountain climbing goals” with just banging out some scales and tunes along the way. And then keep revisiting interval concepts as I go - maybe like those “magic eye” (picture in picture) stereogram paintings.

Thanks for the support.

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Checking out this video…
At 0:39, when he says that it’s kinda boring and can’t immediately be put into practice… that’s a red flag.

The theory you learn as a player (not someone trying to pass music school tests) should always be practical. I think that’s what Josh and BassBuzz do better than anyone.

At 3:30ish, where he’s talking about letter classes…. this is deep in the weeds of music grammar. I’d encourage more focus on playing tunes and learning as many songs and common chord progressions as possible (blues, recurring pop structures, etc).
Most of the professional musicians I play with don’t know anything about what the guy is talking about at this part of the video, and they do quite well for themselves.
They’d be terrible theory teachers or sheet-music transcribers, which is what this skill/knowledge is for.

I’m into minutes 4-5 now, and while he is explaining things well for the theory student, this information is super frustrating.
The way that we encounter intervals while playing bass is very distant from this approach. We see them in fingering patterns, and in scales that we play.
This abstact approach is very heady, but not at all in the hands and ears.

OK.
Scanned the next bits with the even weirder intervals… definitely ignore all of this.
No one in any band I’ve ever been in, at any studio session, or anywhere (outside of my classical music theory courses) has used augmented or diminished intervals.
Jass/Rock/Pop theory is not into this stuff, because it’s overly technical.
They usually simplify things, and have a different way to describe these intervals.

This would be like learning the King’s English and then trying to talk to normal people on the street. Most of them would look at you weird, and they wouldn’t really know what you’re talking about.

Here’s my flowchart for theory information on the internet.

  1. Is this interesting to you?
    If yes, keep going. If it’s not but you think you should know this, NO YOU SHOULDN’T. Go learn a song, or practice to a cool beat.

  2. Does it make sense to you?
    If yes, keep going.
    If no, this is probably too deep down the theory well for your experience level / the teacher’s experience level / what you want to do on the instrument. Maybe go practice technique and scales for a bit.

  3. Do you see any way to apply this to your instrument where you are now?
    If yes, great.
    If no, put a bookmark in there, and leave it alone. There is so much information out there, and none of it is more relevant that playing your instrument, learning songs, learning to play in time, and learning what your instrument does in the context of the music you like and want to play.

Music theory has a magical allure because of jargon, and it reeks of talent, knowledge, and secrets that will catapult you to the next level of playing.
It won’t.
It is super cool and interesting, and is fascinating. It is helpful for talking to other musicians who speak music jargon. It is helpful for making sure you are academically correct in the things you say/spell/write in music.

It can gradually and incrementally help you reach the next level when it is presented in applicable scenarios, with applicable, playable material and exercises.

I hope this helps, and that it helps future forumites to avoid spinning wheels.

Holler with any questions.

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My free advice @Stevis, for what it’s worth, is to save your money and buy the B2B course as soon as you can. In the meantime watch the free online content from Josh’s channel.

I trust @Gio on this. You really don’t need that much theory to play bass (I’m a perfect example of this). It’s patterns that you can move around anywhere on the fret board due to the whole thing being tuned the way it is.

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Yeah. Honestly, for bass, I think just understanding what intervals and scales are, how you use them to move around in a practical sense, what the scale degrees/Nashville numbers/diatonic chords mean, and how major and minor thirds work together to make chords is probably 110% of what most people will actually use (myself included if I am honest and make my inner keyboardist shut up for a second).

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Here are a couple of videos that explain all the really helpful theory fundamentals and Andrew Huang has a lot of great, fun stuff! I HATED music theory when i was in school, i wish i’d had some of these resources to make it much easier to understand.

The only way you get good at intervals is through repetition. If you want an app, i really like Perfect Ear so I suggest that, functional ear trainer is also good, also ToneGym, Tonedear and Musictheory.net has an interval section and there are many others out there. Otherwise, you can just use any musical instrument (including your voice) and practice scales, arpeggios and intervals.

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Thanks for the additional suggestions and take on that video link, @Gio. After your earlier response and suggestions on initial first post, I went and looked at the page you had linked on the blues bass survival shapes. I also went back to Josh’s videos on learning and practicing scale shapes (to not be a robot). He never uses the term (Intervals) but IF I get what everyone has been saying here about intervals (big if), I think that he is simplifying the underlying interval concept, when he suggests looking/listening for melodies in scales (in this case, the major scale) when practicing. He also wants you to analyze how notes in melody or bass lines fit into a scale. In essence, I would be learning to link the visuals (shapes and patterns) with ear/tones, which seems to be the application of interval concepts. And this will take time and practice.

So, I think that the big takeaway here for me is that the APPLICATION of interval concepts is really about increasing one’s command of the fretboard, to see and hear what’s happening in moving between notes (strings and frets). Naming the types of intervals is nice but - at the end of the day - not nearly as important as scales, patterns, ear training and technique. And so now I feel comfortable that I am not currently short-shifting my “Lego building,” by not learning these interval names/types now. I think that I would be better served to continue with scales/shapes and learn how to read music (yuck?) as I progress.

I will check out the vids @sshoihet was kind enough to link. Even if these will be more useful down the line, I can tuck them into my YouTube learning library for now.

Forgive me for being “meta” here but it seems that “learning about learning music” is part of the battle here. So, once again, I really appreciate the constructive feedback and suggestions. B2B is definitely in my future, when I have the funds. But having this supportive online community has already been very helpful as I continue working on being a “badass bedroom plunker.”

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Cutting to the absolute chase: If you actually want to learn how to play bass, just bite the bullet already: Run, don’t walk, to buy the Beginner to Badass course. It is bar none the fastest, easiest and most fun way to learn how to play.

Period. Full stop.

There have been, and continue to be, countless wannabe newbies slogging aimlessly through YouTube, watching countless free bass videos from countless sources (some worthwhile, tons that aren’t), trying desperately to learn the secrets of playing bass well. Most forum members here likely started that way. I know I did.

But there’s no plan to that approach. No structure. No real logic. Just a bunch of videos about lots of stuff. No real learning based on an actual program of study designed and presented by a teacher who is dedicated to teaching beginners, and nothing else.

But Josh Fosgreen is that teacher, and Beginner to Badass is the best bass course for beginners.

Just to be clear, I don’t have any financial stake or interest in suggesting B2B to anyone. But I can truthfully state it is exactly what I describe here.

The fact is that B2B is the very best bass investment a beginner could ever make.

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Yes. Josh covers the basics of all this in the course.

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Well, that’s pretty much everything :slight_smile: and part of why i like the book “The 4 hour chef”.

Yes yes yes to the takeaway and the application.

With the caveat - if you have a math/pattern brain and just love the patterns/numbers/rules of theory, it’s fun as hell.
But it doesn’t help the playing.
So, just be aware of the goal, and then hopefully you’ll make the choice you want based on the thing you’re aiming for.

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Thanks. That’s good advice. For now, I am trying to structure practice with that in mind - a little time for technique, some time for scales, some time for songs - rinse and repeat. And hopefully, the ear stuff will come along the way.

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