Music Theory

That’s unfortunate because that might be the best 45 minutes I have spent on music history and definitely on the evolution of music teaching.

Neely doesn’t pull any punches in there, and it is definitely colored by current events, but that doesn’t make it any less interesting or salient.

It also might actually make me re-evaluate my feelings about Jazz. It’s that interesting.

Also, lots of Nahre Sol killing it on the piano :slight_smile:

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The world is always represented In formal publication by the 2nd Golden Rule; those with the gold make the rules according to their agenda or audience. That hasn’t changed in thousands of years.

I like that the quantity of information available on the internet allows me to explore beyond in any way I like. We are presented in the mainstream with a gross oversimplification. However, for many people for many purposes that simplification serves their needs.

In addition to the East Indian example given in the video, every Western music scale we have is also a small subset of Maqam.

So many wonderful things out there to learn!

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WARNING: some rambling below - proceed with caution!

Finally had some time to watch the entire video. And it sure got me thinking - in so many ways! (And, I guess that is one of the intentions of this video)

I really like Adam Neely, and when I “discovered” him around November 2019, his videos really rekindled my passion for music and I credit him for pushing me towards learning a new instrument and getting more serious about playing music again. For this, I will be forever grateful to him (and he will never know :smile:)

Lately, it seems to me, however, that he is at a crossroads and perhaps struggling a bit with where he wants to go and what he wants to achieve with his YT channel (and Patreon etc) and, maybe more to the point, who his audience is. To me, it seems like he is almost preparing to apply for a faculty position at one of the major music schools as he is releasing his meticulously crafted and researched “essays” on music. These are scholarly pieces, oral presentations he could give at a conference, and, by golly, he has the ability (and then some) to become a scholar (perhaps more so than the guys at North Texas), but now feels almost trapped in his YT channel… Again, just how it appears to me!

But, who is he really trying to reach with these videos? Is he not - inadvertently - fostering a very similar kind of elitism (albeit of a very different “flavor”) than the one he is making us aware of? Is he mainly talking to that tiny fraction of people who were fortunate enough to enjoy a college education and perhaps even a formal music education? Sure, I learned some new things, and I have to admit that I never looked at music theory and education in that way before. And I certainly appreciate that the way music is taught (also outside of higher musical education) is being questioned, re-thought and innovated.

But: how many of us (average joes) are likely to perform in-depth analyses of musical pieces? How many of us are going deep into North Indian music or Middle Eastern music? How many of us are likely to read any of the books he is referring to? It is not that these are not interesting and potentially rewarding goals, but I think most of us don’t have the time, background and stamina for it. And, really, we are all still struggling with most aspects of 18th century European yadda yadda anyway.

At the end of the day, most of us amateur hacks just want to have fun with playing music and playing together with others, and we most likely never need to bother with overly esoteric musical issues. In fact, we absorb music by listening to what we find; radio, playlists, streaming, this forum, … and we usually never consciously stop and wonder about whether what we hear has roots in classical music, blues, African rhythms or something else. I’d wager most of us have a child-like approach to music - if we like what we hear, we try to mimic/copy it. Sure, there is so much out there we never get exposed to, but how far can you go? How much time and effort can you invest? These are not just rabbit holes (which we all like), these are rabbit chasms :open_mouth:

So, back to my point about where Neely is going? Is he going off the deep end? With videos like this one, there is a feeling that he might… And in the process, he might be losing those of his viewers who just can’t relate to what he is talking about anymore, or who feel that what he says hasn’t got any real (immediate) relevance for them anymore (and my guess is this is the majority of his viewers). Does that mean he should become more “populistic”? Pick up “lighter” topics in music? Compromise on his thoroughness, ambition, and standards? No, I guess not. There are plenty of those out there on YT already. So what should he do?

I think he should take his immense talents of getting to the core of an issue, his knack for being concise and clear (well, mostly), and his ability to first de-construct an issue and then put it back together piece by piece, and use those to look at smaller chunks, much more concrete aspects of music (theory) and make them accessible to people without in-depth prior musical education and present them in such a way that the knowledge of theory can be turned into practical know-how that can be directly applied to playing music. For example, he briefly mentioned an approach to improvising based on the lydian scale in this video here. If he could break that down, make it understandable to me and then distill the essence into how-tos, that would be totally awesome.

My apologies for the long rant…

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You basically nailed the reason I don’t watch Rick Beato. With Neely I still get a lot of interest out of his topic explorations, but I hear what you’re saying and you put it in a really well articulated way. I think you’re right, he’s at a natural nexus in his online career and where to go from where he is is an excellent question.

For someone that came from a formal music education background, and is now a gigging musician in NYC, a tenured faculty position has to sound good about now.

For me, I would just like him to do more bass videos :slight_smile:

Also I will listen to Nahre Sol playing piano all day.

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Yes, I struggle with him as well, and indeed for a similar reason. It seems hard for these guys to find the “right level”.

That said, this might be a general problem for YouTubers!? I don’t really watch Davie (can’t quite stand him), but it seems to me that his videos had gotten more and more “extreme” - always more crazy challenges (either dreamed up by his fans or himself). In that sense, I see similar developments for Adam Neely: “please explain this chord with five double sharps and a detuned fifth” or “what is a quintuplet in a septuplet rhythm” etc.

:smile:

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This particular one may feel like a non-sequitur because of what’s happening in the US right now politically. The BLM protests in response to police related deaths have prompted absolutely everyone in every enterprise to make an effort toward addressing racial inequality, in any way that it may possibly apply to their context. Some responses are less awkward than others, but everyone are making first attempts.

As a Vacation Rental By Owner property owner I have received notice from VRBO that they will be monitoring rental requests and responses to detect racial inequalities. The example list is very long.

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Thanks for sharing this insight for us who are not from the US - that actually puts a few other things into perspective for me!

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+1 to what @DaveT said.

And, on a practical note, it is very very very helpful to separate western classical music theory from what people will be talking about on the bandstand.
Anything that has the potential to clarify a conversation and help in musical communication is a good step to take, in my book.
I’m way into practical and applicable information and communication, and having someone on a bandstand say they’re playing a Neopolitan in first inversion is less helpful than if they call out a scale degree number or numbered chord change!

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Yep @DaveT summed it up nicely.

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Are there other shorthand or framework systems that maybe blues, jazz or? other groups may use?

It seemed like Adam’s chapter numbers were poking fun at having to describe a blues scale as flat 5, flat 7, etc. , a modification list to a different system where most of the Medieval or Celtic catalog can be described simply by C. Has anybody written a different system where Blues is at the core of its design?

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No real codified systems.
It basically makes a strong break at Jazz, and the invention of the lead sheet and quick ways to talk about chord progressions…
But maybe it goes back to folk music way before that - not sure what those oral traditions were, or how they described music verbally to one another.

Once you get into chord notation, you’re using major scale degrees as your starting point.
Nashville charts are different than lyric/chord charts (usually church/folk) and are different than lead sheets (jazz).

But they’re all variations on the same thing.

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Is there a good set of guidelines or, really, even any tips for analyzing music with key changes? I don’t mean chord progressions, I mean changing to different keys.

I’ve been trying to analyze Gary Numan/Tubeway Army’s “Down In The Park”. As far as I can tell it uses at least two different keys, and is changing between them for the second part of the bridge, which also seems to go a little chromatic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C86Q9FukYE

It’s like the second half of the bridge shifts key down by a half step. And then resolves in the original key. Neat trick.

This person broke it down in MIDI and it’s sounds right to me. The actual notes and chords are simple and usually just power chords, but it’s really apparent watching this where the key changes happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0WzHYekpo0

Regardless, this song is more complex than it sounds. Having fun trying to figure it out.

You can hear the key change in the Foos cover too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30DMi866ThM

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There is sheet music available where you can see the keys change… other than that, I am not sure how else you’d find out but by listening and checking what sharps or flats do occur frequently!

Here is an excerpt from the piano version (not from the very top, but to show how often, and how the keys change; at least in that part of the song). The full version of the sheet music is for purchase only…

I cloak/blur the pic in case you still want to find out for yourself :grinning:

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Thanks!

I actually had found that. It’s piano sheet music for a piano rendition that is not exactly aligned with the actual song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrQQQxyz6fs

but yep, there’s the key change right there in the score, in the same places.

And, wow, yep, it’s actually using three keys.

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Three times within a handful of bars… not bad outside jazz :grin:

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Yeah, surprisingly complicated. No wonder I was confused :slight_smile:

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Ariane Cap has a great book and course on music Theory.
Music Theory for the Bass Player. Highly recommend it. The couse is well plan out with many examples and excises. Very well laid out. Her price has gone up since 1st released but worth every penny.
CHEERS :beers:

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This is a great book. And buying the couse is even better. I also highly recommend this couse with book. Just like to see people get well informed with products that are awesome for us bass player to get better. :+1::+1:

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There a free Ebook from Ryan Madora. Which is very basic with rhythm staying the same on 1 cord. But start on the root then she add the 3rd, 5th does all kind of pentatonic variation. For free. All you got to do is email her and she sends it out. Also highly recommend this . I think we’re all here to get better and share that knowledge.
Cheers :beers:

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Yes, great book. Many of us on the B2B forum have read it. Her lessons that go with the book are good too.

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