This - in a nutshell - is why offering anything beyond a beginner’s course is a nightmare (from a teacher/educator point of view) and which is probably one of the main reasons Josh hasn’t offered a follow-up course (yet).
There is just so much variety (in topics) and diversity (in interest etc.) that there is no ONE way forward.
And so, even when you granularize it down to the smallest possible units, and try to make them self-consistent and still somehow building off of each other - there will ALWAYS be people “complaining” about missing this and that…
It’s natural and understandable, but, IMHO, pretty much unsolvable (other than having fully individualized bespoke programs).
(Edit)
TL;DR Version: SBL’s marketing got me to briefly check out their beginner course. I wasn’t impressed. Switched to B2B, and it was worlds better.
SBL continues to try to market to me, but has yet to show me anything to convince me that I will get more out of their other products than I did out of their beginner course.
If they want my business, they need to communicate why their product will be valuable to me, not just that it exists.
(Original full comment:)
What annoys me is that I would like to be more on their side, but whenever I interact with their stuff, it misses at least as often as it hits. I don’t think their products are bad, but I think they are inferior to their direct competition.
I don’t care about the ads. I can easily ignore the persistent marketing (and do). They are trying to run a business and make money. Marketing is important and it takes an average of 7 “touches” to get someone to bite.
I do care about their YT videos. I’m judging them on their free samples. When they present a teaser video on YouTube, does it make me want to hear more from them about the topic? Do I feel like they’ve put time and thought into me as a potential student and what my needs are going to be? Usually not. Usually I zone out quickly.
Contrast that with BassBuzz. They put out fewer videos, but they all manage to pack in more useful information in less time.
I’m sure SBL have some products that I would find valuable and worth the time and money. The problem is that they have done a HORRIBLE job communicating to me what those are going to be.
I briefly tried their beginner course before shifting to B2B. Their website was a lot harder to navigate, unclear what I actually wanted to be looking at, and then the videos were very “meh”.
I think my problem is that they try to do too much and so it ends up being lower quality. As opposed to BassBuzz or Talking Bass, which have narrower focus, but higher quality on what they do. I think SBL would provide better lessons by finding a niche to limit their focus on. Instead, it seems like they’ve taken the tactic of casting the widest marketing net.
Yeah, sure. I’m teaching myself, and I’m totally aware of that. Designing a curriculum for intermediate or advanced students is really tricky.
Also, it was meant as a more general observation in the sense of this: in the bootcamp the other week they talked about fragmented vs. integrated learning. I was thinking the modules would be more integrated. Like, learn a rhythmic concept, learn then an harmonic concept, and then apply that to a song, baseline building etc.
But again, that is just a very first (and probably premature) impression. As I’ve said, the content in the first lecture looks solid and helpful.
Another critique of SBL - I want less Scott and Ian, and more Sharon.
Videos that are just Scott and/or Ian talking often annoy me. I feel like they are only aware of themselves and each other, not their audience.
I think Sharon is more relaxed and welcoming. I think they’d get a lot further if they had more ads that were her saying softly, “Hey. We’re going to do this. It’s going to be a great opportunity to learn [specific thing].” Instead of the big, loud shouty Ian/Scott going, “Oh my god! We’ve got this thing coming out! It’s going to be huge! And great! This is a limited opportunity! You don’t want to miss it!”
Yep. And those videos are my favorite that SBL puts out.
I briefly looked at a video of Scott interviewing Sharon about her time at Berklee, and it became clear to me why I don’t like Scott’s lessons, but like Sharon’s bits.
Scott does not know how to shut up and leave space. He talks constantly. It’s her story and experience, and he spends more time talking than she does. For every minute of talking, he spits out more words. Sharon takes time to pause and find the right phrase or description. Scott frequently jumps in while she’s doing this and interrupts and talks over her great description.
I can’t learn and process information at that kind of tempo. I need those pauses. I need time to process what I’ve just heard before I’m presented with new information. I need less information presented more specifically.
It’s just like playing a good bass line. The space and rests are as important as the notes.
And yes… you are totally right… his love and excitement for the bass are in the right place, but he needs to learn how to read the room… especially when you’re talking about a virtual audience.
I coached thousands of hours at this point - mostly corporate settings - and you lose a crowd if you go there and just fully “debit” the slides… and leave 0 room for integration/assimilation.
Another way to spook a crowd is the “8 figure CEO” on your IG profile, that he very quickly and very promptly removed when someone on reddit posted that image.
Guess I’ll know 12 months from now, the completion date of my Full Stack Bassist program. And given the polarity of opinions regarding SBL compared to BassBuzz, it’s obvious why there’s a ‘no politics/no religion’ exclusion here. Tribes can be sooo protective!
(I quickly counted over 100 people in the FSB Welcome chat so I won’t be the only student in class.)
I happen to enjoy the teaching style of Scott and crew, have learned a ton over the last year staying connected with SBL, wrote a fusion piece our band will play based on one of the SBL Bootcamp sessions last week and can’t wait for the FSB program to get started tonight.
I choose to endure Stott’s email barrage compared to learning songs I can’t stand listening to let alone want to learn how to play within the Beginner To Badass curriculum.
B2B doesn’t require learning any full songs. It has lists of songs that you can learn alongside it, but they’re only suggestions. Some I really like, some I dislike, many I am ambivalent towards. I’ve only ever worked on songs that I like. I think this is the idea - that no one will like everything, but everyone will like something.
It does use selected riffs from songs in the course, and some of those are from songs I have no interest in. But they’re always short sections that are clearly selected to illustrate a particular concept or technique, and you never have to spend more than 15 total minutes with them.
To me, the most important aspects of evaluating a potential teacher are: 1.) he/she has knowledge that is relevant to my needs; and 2.) he/she can impart that knowledge to me in a manner I can enjoy, absorb and benefit from.
The OP asked about an SBL program, hence, the comments about the relative efficacy of Scott, his teaching style, and his business model.
If SBL works for you, live long and prosper. If not, there are excellent alternatives available.
Forget tribalism: Josh doesn’t need protecting. If B2B doesn’t fulfill the criteria I outlined above, so be it. No biggie, one way or the other.
Thanks G! Will do.
Passion, smiles and fun are what attracted me to SBL at first, then remembering… “If you want to get better, hang out/play with people way better than you.”
I restarted my bass journey a year ago after a 50-year neglect and have been following a number of online instructors, learning lots from each. Decided it was time to focus on one “package” and chose SBL/FSB partly because the timing was right but also thinking this program would be harder, not faster compared to others. I’m in this for the long haul (hoping at 75 there is a long haul left ) so I’ll know along the way if I made the right decision.
sbl has used the same marketing position since day one and people have complained about it from day one. at the end of the day, it’s the product that matters to me and sbl’s products have become very very good over the last few years. in some ways i would actually argue that they are the best at what they do. and if i get a few obnoxious marketing emails in the meantime, i figure #1. join the crowd, i get a bazillion marketing messages anyways #2. i’d rather get bass spam than dick pills spam #3. it’s obviously working for them or they would change the strategy.
What is it SBL programs do best?
Who are they for? In what context?
What can you expect to get out of them for what sort of time/money investment?
My big problem with SBL’s marketing is that, for as much as they bombard me, they don’t answer these fundamental questions. They tell me their programs are valuable, not what that value is. I’ve tried two of their courses (the beginner, and an archived “Walking Bass Lines” course they uploaded to YouTube), and came away with ambivalent to negative opinions.
I have a higher opinion of Bass Buzz especially, and Talking Bass secondarily because it is easy to answer whether it will be worth any person’s time and money to take them.
(Disclaimer: not paid for by SBL in any way, but invested in their top tier program)
Your questions are all fair and good, but just not easily answered. And even if they were, it’s just second-hand knowledge.
If I were you, wait until you know you are going to have some time over a two week period and then sign up and check out their courses etc yourself. Other than some of their tailored long-term programs, you can access all their courses and cram as much in as you can in two weeks (or whatever the period is; I don’t remember) and then quit and get your money back (if you don’t like it). That is the best way for YOU to find out whether any of this appeals to you.
SBL (and their content) can’t be compared to BassBuzz. BassBuzz is for beginners and it is hands-down the best course for beginners (we all know that). I would never recommend beginners to look at SBL as a serious option.
But, after BassBuzz, SBL is an option, just like Talking Bass etc. They all have different strenghts and weaknesses, and it is best to try for yourself (as much as possible).
What SBL is trying to do with their long-term program (such as, e.g., the Full Stack Bassist) is to somehow introduce the element of “accountability”, i.e., that there is not just a curriculum, but some mechanism to check how you are progressing (or whether you are progressing at all) and “gently” force you to put some effort into all this. How to do that, and keep online teaching, individual goals and ambition levels, and economic considerations in mind, is the true unicorn here.
Thank you. I appreciate this answer. It is in line with my impressions. Which say to me that this isn’t the program for me at this time. I’m making progress and being held accountable with a combination of having a band and a private instructor.
I stand by my assertion that they’re not doing a good job communicating this themselves. However, given how large their membership numbers are, they certainly aren’t hurting.
) so I’ll know along the way if I made the right decision.