Should I shoot my new bass? (Modding the Harley Benton MV-4MSB)

If you notice that the rain gets you wet, you don’t need to wait for a scientific study to take out your umbrella :joy:

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Hahaha! Spoken like a true believer! I get that kind of arguing every time I discuss religion too…

So: it does not matter, what nut size a bass has … 38mm, 40mm or 42mm … it’s basically a matter of “feel” and can neither be reasoned nor quantized.

So … it’s nothing more than an opinion!?

I can live with that!

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That’s not what I said. It’s a matter of personal preference for how it feels in your hand, for which quantization doesn’t make sense.

Well I mean if we are going to get all sciencier and more numerical-than-thou, by education and early profession I was an analytical chemist and research student, and for the decades since then I have been an engineer :rofl:

Which is how I know when it makes sense to measure and when it does not.

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Ah, ok: I’m an ex-psychologist, so I know why you are rationalizing :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Still, from a scientific point it leads nowhere to say “it doesn’t make sense to try [insert anything here]”…

Let’s take bike geometry. A bike might “feel” good, but that does not mean that it is the most efficient bike that fits your body. Most of the time it isn’t (same for climbing shoes, by the way).
I learned that when I dug into bike fitting - It’s as much an art as it is science. And, for example: a centimeter for saddle horizontal or vertical positions or a few degrees lower or higher for saddle angles makes a world of difference in performance. It also feels different - ask you @ss, back, neck and feet when fitting a new bike!
And this can be explained by biomechanics, not by mere “it feels good”. More often than not, a freshly fitted bike feels not great. But it can give you 2-5km/h more average speed, as I know from experience…
So asking “why” makes a lot of sense here.

My initial point was: how can something that (in my opinion) can most likely not be felt … like a 0.5mm difference and a very tiny angle … make a difference in feel?
And what does it mean for “performance” in playing, whatever that means (as I need to think of a definition in this case. Is it speed?).
The effect on hand or finger position and angles should be neglectable in case of nut width. Or is it?

I am not saying that you don’t feel better with a 40mm neck. Sugarwater also tastes more like fuit when it’s red, not grey.
But it would be like me saying that high mass bridges sound like having better sustain :slight_smile:

But, no worries: it is not a question that keeps me awake at night. After all, my new small nuts feel better than my old large ones, so I’m set :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

First of all, the difference is 2-4mm (in width) and potentially 2-3mm in depth at the nut, depending on profile, not 0.5mm (you seem to be focusing on string spacing here, which is not the primary or even an especially important factor in neck feel). The neck then also tapers differently depending on profile, and also there’s radius to factor in. The necks actually have rather large physical differences with different subjective feels. The dimensional differences are not as small as you are assuming.

But even if they were, the difference between 100 grit and 200 grit sandpaper is about 50 microns, and I guarantee you can feel the difference :slight_smile:

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Ok, that means: I could put a 40mm nut on a 42mm neck and it makes no difference, everything else being equal? The only factor will be string spacing then…
(In fact I did put a 40mm nut on my 42mm Blackstar Bass, but for different reasons)

I liked that argument at first (in the sense of: it made me smile), but there is a difference in biomechanical feel and tactile feel of the skin. So it does not add to the discussion.

String spacing has its own feel difference that is independent of neck size.

Neck dimensionality has its own feel differences that are independent of string width.

It is actually quite common to have different neck widths and profiles share the same string spacing.

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Well you are a mountain biker so you can probably relate to my explanation.

Nutwidth and string spacing is like bike flex (frame). You can ride and never felt any differences, but once you do, you can’t forget the sensation. In fact it’s would become the focus of every rides and every bikes. It feels like you are burping air on your tires. I guess it kinda like the tire pressure on the mountain bike as well. If you are a passive rider, low pressure can suits you pretty well, but if you are an active rider you need much much higher PSI if not you’ll be fixing flats all day long. :joy:

I’ve never notice the differences until one day I switched between my Stingray Neckthrough (42mm) and EBMM Caprice( PJ 38mm) that’s about 4 mm difference. The Stingray felt slower and not as forgiving. I couldn’t explain or understand, when I switched back to caprice it normal again I could play the groove easily again.

That’s was the start of my nutwidth and string spacing. I then learned to appreciate the wider and more spacious of the P bass and Stingray type of neck profile and nutwidth. If you are sensitive to this then each profile would inspire different path of transition notes and fills.

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Hey @Al1885 ! I can relate to that. Playing the 38mm nutted bass feels different than my 42/40mm bass. Of course, everything else is different on those basses too.

I just don’t understand the reason. For bike frame flex I understand … stiffer frames = better transmission of force = being faster & climbing better.
I don’t get it for the nut, for the reasons discussed at great length above.

Again: it’s totally not important. It’s just my curiousity that needs to be satisfied, nothing that feels like my life depends on it :slight_smile:

Ronin arrived too:

Need to get rid of some plastic packaging sheet under the knobs and screws, but it’s already looking good.

How great will it look with everything black and the fretboard darkened? We will know very soon :slight_smile:

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The frame stiffness is not to compare with nutwidth. It’s the discovery of it. How do you know about frame flex. You can’t tell it by looking at it, most times not even when you ride it. Only special specific time on the trail you can experience it and once you do, you can’t forget it. That’s my point. Have you ever felt a frame flex?

This is one of those thing that you can learn but can’t be taught. One of the sure way to figure out is to play some difficult grooves or fills on one type of bass until you get it then switch to another, do this often enough one day you’ll feel it, and once you do you won’t forget it.

I thought about the bike analogy and I found another for you. Nutwidth and string spacing is like Chain Stay length. The faster Jazz profile neck is like DJ style bikes with short chainstay very maneuverable and especially doing manual and wheelie compares to longer chainstay and wheelbase, where it’s more stable. A 5 string bass would feel like a 650b full suspension and the 6 sting would probably feels like a 29er FS :joy:

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Now explain it with a good asian dish recipe please :slight_smile:

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Of course - I am one of those stupid guys that always rides with (too) heavy gears. You can see my (aluminium) frame bend when I am climbing steep hills.

I don’t have a carbon bike cause of breakage risk … I know it’s stiffer, but I will break anything made of carbon :frowning:

Comin from 26" originally and riding only 29er MTBs now, I can relate.
I was “no fear” on 26" … and ride like my grannie on 29".
So 6 strings are for grannies and the Jazz profile for the cool kids.

Understood :slight_smile:

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That would be too easy but it would go right over your head pretty quickly. It’s not an insult, it’s just the way it is, :joy: as we are talking about rarely felt sensation.

I’ll give you a picture words in cooking terms
Umami: the famous #6th taste. Most people can’t explain it.
Dutch chocolate (this is a fun one) you are a Dutch you should be able to tell when to use and not to right? most people don’t.

That would be the opposite. I would think that if you break stuffs you’d want to avoid riding aluminum. Carbon has memory, when it breaks it bounce back to the original shape broken but somewhat usable. Steel bends and stays bend after failure. Aluminum just broke, there’s no give.

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You do know who the first person will be that I visit when I come to California??! :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Dutch chocolate s#cks, except in hagelslag

or vla


(Note: vla is NOT pudding!)

Best chocolate: Swedish or Swiss. Not from Belgium!!! The general rile is: don’t trust anything from Belgium ^^

About carbon: that might be true, but if carbon gets one little dent, it just explodes. Happened to me with bikes, paddles and (very often) arrows…

If you ever experienced that, you don’t trust the material anymore, especially at high speeds or technical rides.

But everybody I know rides carbon. I’m just as old-fashioned with bikes as all those Fender owners for basses…

This is what I’m gonna do with my pickguard and control plate:

I’ve been riding carbon mountain bikes for years (Santa Cruz Nomad 3, Specialized Levo SL) and not had a problem.

They race carbon in all the top tier races. It’s pretty amazing technology.

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A friend of mine once said I’m a “material tester” (that’s German for “the guy that breaks anything” ^^), but now I became just fat, sluggish and technically sloppy. I have a whole collection of “Chris does a salto over the handlebars” video clips…

PS Love the dog!

Yeah but you’re not an Engineer. So to trash talk carbon without really understanding how fantastic that technology is. Well is just silly.

I ride my carbon bike like my aluminum framed bike and it’s all good.

Your sample size of one doesn’t negate the benefits of carbon frames.

She was cool dog. I still miss her.

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Don’t get me wrong: I love carbon as a material. I still use it for my paddles, I would use it for arrows if I hadn’t given up that hobby - but I just have a fear for carbon bikes due to not so pleasant memories.
And you should not do high speeds or challenging downhills with fear! At least I should not, cause fear is what almost killed me a few times…

PS The day my beautiful, bright and very good natured (not to mention funny) German Shepherd died was one of the worst days of my life. I can relate!