Yeah, that’s why I put “roasted” in the quotes. Sorry, I followed that by how everyone loves to help.
1 Like
Mark Smith’s courses are a really good follow up to B2B. Also as you mentioned before, just going through the B2B program again makes a lot of sense and I’ve seen a lot of people comment that they did that.
I never thought about how with sight reading you learn to play without looking at the fretboard because you’re focused on reading the notation, it’s true.
Basic technique is important, I think your original post on the board was on point. Slow down, steady relaxed practice is where it is at.
I said “roasting”, but I realize it was a bad choice of words that might scare people, but I think @MarkeeMark would really benefit from posting videos in the community board and getting feedback from others. I agree with @sunDOG that the community is always super supportive.
2 Likes
I can’t comment well on teachers because I’ve never taken an in-person bass lesson and have only made it through half of Josh’s course even though I play in a couple of bands as a part/time job. However, I will say that I’m sure folks would find many things wrong with my technique, but I play a ton, continue to grow and learn and am having a LOAD of fun. You need to be having fun! If you’re not, back off on the in-person lessons and redo BassBuzz. Don’t quit!! It’s not you—it’s just not the right approach for you right now if you’re feeling that frustrated. Also, I keep the action on my bass incredibly low which helps any strain on my hand tremendously. You might want to check yours out. I keep mine super low. It works great for me because I’m a light touch.
1 Like
I’m not a music instructor, but I have instructed a lot of other disciplines including high performance driving, social dancing, and ramp skating. This advice is spot on. I’m going to pull a couple important things I learned from instructing driving specifically.
We learn our best when we’re going at about 7/10 or 8/10. Below that, you’re not pushing hard enough. Above that, there isn’t extra brain power to process new information or to try things and adapt in the moment. As you get better that 8/10’s gets larger.
In instructors’ training, they also taught us a method for make adjustments and corrections to actually help people learn and improve:
- What is working well?
- What would a more ideal situation look like?
- What is one change that can be made to move the current situation towards the more ideal?
- Go do that for a while.
- Repeat these steps.
You need to tackle fewer things at once. Figure out one thing to work on and focus just on that. Or work on two things at once if they are closely related - like your thumb position first and fretting pressure with it.
When picking something to work on, remember to form it as a positive thing you WILL do, rather than telling yourself not to do a negative thing. E.g. tell yourself “I’ll keep my thumb on the back of the neck” rather than “Don’t wrap my thumb around.”
1 Like
You may want to invert how you learn songs.
It sounds like you are trying to brute-force memorize songs one note at a time using a top-down approach. This is often very inefficient and opens you up to being easily derailed because if you make one mistake, you’ve thrown everything off.
You might do better learning from a bottom-up approach starting with simpler basic structures and adding detail as you progress. This is how I have found I learn best.
I’m going to use learning “Folsom Prison Blues” as an example.
Instead of going note-by-note, go bar-by bar. Identify the root of the key the song is in. Then identify the root notes of the chord changes. Start to sketch out the changes playing just root notes. At this point in “FPB”, you’re just plucking roots as whole, half, or quarter notes.
Then figure out what chord movements build off of those and add in really simple movements - grabbing just the 3rd, 4th, or 5th. At this point in “FPB”, you’re grabbing the lower 5th by moving down a string on the same fret.
Then start adding more details by adding one piece at a time of - extra rhythm, more notes in the chords, leading tones, or moving/walking lines. Now in “FPB” you are adding syncopating your plucking; then you are adding the “Bum-bah-dump-” walks into the chord changes.
Now you have a full song. When you get stressed in the moment, the song reverts to a simpler form instead of falling apart completely.
If you were learning how to draw, this is the same way you’d be taught how to draw a portrait. You wouldn’t start in one corner and fill in all the details all at once. You’d draw a circle for the outline of a head, and draw guidelines to show the centerline and the eye line. Then you’d crudely sketch out the major features. You’d add details and shading last.
4 Likes
I struggle with the same thing, so this advice is genius. Thank you for sharing.
3 Likes
Just my take. Unless you’re going to be a session bassist, are going to music school, or are going to take gigs with songs you don’t know at a moment’s notice, you don’t need to know sight reading at all. It can be a handy skill to know, but it’s advanced and something you’ll almost never use. There are probably a hundred more useful things to learn first.
2 Likes
There are many benefits to learning to sight read for many bass players:
- Not being dependent on tabs is a big one.
- Being able to accurately notate transcriptions of songs is another.
- Another is learning the fretboard completely.
- Yet one more is not being dependent on staring at the fretboard while playing.
That said, to each his own.
1 Like
I think maybe we’re getting crossed wires on what sight reading means. Sight reading doesn’t mean being able to read music notation–that’s just knowing how to read, and yeah that’s useful for any musician.
Sight reading is the skill of being able to read music and perform it the first time you see it, with no practicing beforehand. That’s useful in some niche situations that I mentioned, but for most of us on this forum who aren’t pro musicians, there’s really no use for it.
Your four examples don’t actually involve sight reading.
- This is being able to read music.
- This is ear training and transcribing.
- This is just learning the fret board
- This is learning to play by feel, I guess?
Sight reading is I hand you a piece of sheet music at the beginning of the gig, and we play it. No practicing, you’ve never seen it before, or heard the song before. So unless you’re a pro or music student, you won’t ever have to do that.
1 Like
Your definition is pretty narrow. Sight reading is reading music notation, first and foremost, for any reason. Different use cases apply based on circumstances, such as the gig scenario you cited. But that’s just one, and not a common one except for conductors, teachers and pro players.
The Simple Steps to Sight Reading course by Talking Bass provides all the benefits I listed, as I can attest.
2 Likes
It may be narrow, but it’s the correct definition. SIGHT reading is reading on sight, with no prep. Your definition is incorrect. What you’re talking about is just reading. The problem is people misuse terms without knowing what they really mean.
2 Likes
I disagree, @GingerBug is right. By your definition I can sight read for all musical instruments, including those not invented yet, and that makes no sense.
- this is correct IMO. Otherwise it’s just “reading”.
2 Likes
It is correct, and it’s not an opinion. It’s a fact. 
2 Likes
Whatever works for you, man. You do you.
3 Likes
I think keeping a distinction between them is extremely helpful.
Being able to read music (at any speed) is an extremely valuable skill that will pay many dividends over time, in both learning and communication. Everyone should take this step IMO.
Being able to sight read for an instrument, on the other hand, is a situational skill that is table stakes for some and not all that important for others.
Mark’s course, on the third hand (for Martians), is reportedly a super valuable course even just for the tangential benefits of knowing the instrument. I still need to pick it up at some point; if it is as good as Chord Tones I am sure it is well worth the money.
1 Like
Tell me about it. 
The Simple Steps for Sight Reading course teaches the several aspects of player benefits I listed. With it, a player can not only read the notes, i.e., know that an E on the staff is an E in theory (even on non-existent instruments 
), it teaches how to interpret that knowledge physically to appropriate fret on the bass neck, and for the proper duration. Not too shabby of skills to know.
Now, does that mean that anyone who has completed the course can automatically play a score sight-unseen, at tempo? No, not necessarily. As with every aspect of any endeavor worth doing, it takes desire and a shitload of practice to be able to do that.
Regardless, just as B2B teaches the fundamentals of how to play a bass, Simple Steps to Sight Reading provides the deep-dive instruction and exercises to get one to whatever level of sight reading desired.
As with anything in life, it exists and is of benefit to anyone who cares to pursue it. Not of interest or worth? Okey-dokey, it still exists, nonethless. 
2 Likes
That’s fair.
I do think it’s really valuable to make a distinction between these terms though.
1 Like
I’m not sure it matters for most contexts. As someone who did the classical thing, auditioned for orchestra membership/
seats, and did the competition/evaluation thing - sight reading is definitely sticking sheet music you’re expected to have never seen before in front of you and seeing how you play it.
2 Likes
Yes. Second seat trumpet, even in high school, I was expected to play what I got.
And I don’t remember a bit of it and couldn’t sight read that instrument today to save my life.
2 Likes
My short term goal is play in a garage band. I live in a retirement area and there’s a good size market for bands doing 70s/80’s/90’s music.
Eventually, I’d like to be qualified for session work, although at my age, I don’t know if there’s time for the development that needs to occur. Maybe I was suffering from delusions of grandeur.
I did sort out the fretting issue, slowed down and relaxed, and that’s coming along better. I got sick and had to take a couple days off an skip that week’s lesson, which in the long run actually helped me out.
2 Likes