The unsustainable sustain claim. Why doesn't it get hammered flat?

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I see a lot of attributes given to various parts of basses. A lot of them I tend not to believe because of experience in a myriad of other activities and a lifetime of being exposed to advertising that failed to deliver.

But there’s one particular attribute that makes me laugh, because it can absolutely be measured and proven, yet nobody seems to bother. And even better is that it gets mentioned, but nobody seems to care.

The claim of high mass bridges giving longer sustain is the easiest thing to prove or disprove, yet nobody seems to want to go there.

It’s quite possible to test bridges of different masses and designs without changing any other thing, so isolating JUST the bridge change to any changes detected.
Heaps of high mass bridges screw straight into the same holes as the OEM low mass ones.

Sustain is the decrease in volume over time, so even differing starting amplitudes isn’t a problem.
Two plucked notes will have identical amplitude values at some point, so the rate at which the volume falls off from there can be directly compared. If the slope changes, sustain has changed.

It will be immediately obvious if someone bothers to test it. Digitally recording a bass before and after a bridge change would be all you’d have to do.

The odd thing is, I’ve changed a few bridges and I’m firmly in the opinion that I couldn’t detect any difference at all.

So at what point is a change in sustain immediately obvious?

If a plucked note was detectably ringing for 15 seconds and a bridge change lengthened it to 16 seconds, would that realistically make any difference to any piece of music?

How would this new capability be exploited?

How often have you looked at your bass and thought to yourself “I wish this thing had more sustain.”?

Personally, never. I doubt I ever will.
On none of the 37 basses I’ve owned in the last three years have I felt that they had sustain differences, but maybe that’s me.

I encourage you all to be incredibly skeptical of sustain claims in future, unless it turns up with testing results and quoted figures.
And when that day happens, ask yourself “Why would I need this?”

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The only time I really notice a difference in sustain is when going from old (dead) strings to new strings.

Everything else might indeed just be “marketing”, not least because there is a lot of physics involved, which all influences how fast a string loses energy.

Because of that, I don’t think it is “easy” to measure, but certainly not impossible.

I don’t think this is correct, if we assume that the decay in volume is an exponential process (and I am almost sure it is). If it were linear, your approach could work, but not so straightforwardly for exponential processes.

I can only imagine two scenarios where a lot of sustain would be neat: a) when playing a note at the end of tune and letting it ring out; and b) when letting notes/open strings drone while you play something else on the other strings

So, yeah, long sustain is mostly not necessary. What I really don’t like (personally) is strings going quiet 10 milliseconds after you pluck them. If I want short notes, I want to control this myself by deliberate action, and not let my strings (or the bridge, or the saddles) dictate that.

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Even if you picked two averaged amplitude values on each comparative bridge, there would be a time difference if there is more sustain. You can do it with either slope based on one amplitude to your chosen second amplitude, or time based between two chosen amplitudes.
A difference is a sustain difference.

My background is technical signals analysis. These things are absolutely measurable. And with the right software, to very fine degrees.

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No. That’s where sustain comes from. It’s different from being able to test the concept of a high mass bridge making a difference.
Sustain comes from the energy in the string staying in the string as long as possible. It is the absolute opposite of vibration reduction.

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it’s amazing how rude people on this forum have become lately. really too bad.

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Do you have a family portrait?

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Asking as a noob here but is sustain something we are chasing?
I keep hearing about muting and foam and such, muddiness and clarity of notes etc.
Surely the application for sustain is somewhat limited to the examples given above.
Obviously we come across slurred whole notes covering several measures but that is within the reach of what we already have.
Why are people chasing infinite sustain in a bass?

Now if high mass bridge imparts a different quality to the sound that is a different question

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I’ve never heard anyone claim a different quality to the sound from a high mass bridge. It’s only ever been sustain. And like you’ve noted… it’s a good thing to claim because not many people really care about it.

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Maybe if you could have done more than just post a link to a video, your point might have been made succinctly?
But sure. Call me rude when you expected a video with no explanation as to your point to comprise your contribution. It is always your right to get upset on the internet because your feelings are hurt.
It’s also convention for the first person who complains to be considered the victim. Don’t ever consider their contribution. Deleting it just lets nobody else form an opinion.

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Do you have a monthly bass subscription @admacdo ?

You know like in the 70’s where K-TEL would send you the ‘record of the month’?

Enquiringly minds need to know!

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I mean, with your 37 basses and background in technical signals analysis, it sounds like you’re volunteering to put together the definitive study on sustain, @admacdo.

:smiley:

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:100:

Hear, hear.

And by that I mean, “Let’s hear it, @admacdo.”

Pull out a dozen or so basses from your arsenal, test away, document, and post your results.

Beats tilting at sustain windmills.

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I did not detect any rudeness within this thread. Just strong opinions. I did notice a post or two were deleted. Is that where the rude comments were? Discussion is healthy and a great part of a vibrant forum.

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A lot of people buy into sustain because it’s largely a marketing gimmick to sell more stuff. More tone, and just look at that sustain. It’s easy to latch onto as a vendor, because it’s not quantified as you say. You can claim anything you want and no one can prove you wrong.

To me, my truth is every bass I ever played has had more than enough sustain to play what I want. It’s kind of like owning a car that will do 0-60 in 4 seconds; it’s just for bragging rights you never use it.

I will add I added a Hipshot himass bridge to a bass over the weekend, but not for sustain. For the brass saddles, more stable saddles, and setup ergonomics over the cheap angle bridges from Fender. Also the weight to help offset the ginormous headstock on my Mustang. There’s other reasons for these bridges.

And just look at that sustain

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My basses sustain me.

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So they can hear the same note playing both before and after they “go out for a bite”.

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Totally agree! However, to have good discussions requires some nourishment and care, I think.

IMHO, if you start a thread, you take on some responsibility for that thread - you become like a talk show host who makes everyone feel welcome, who encourages others to contribute, who acknowledges other opinions and viewpoints, and who follows up to keep the discussion alive.

Unless, of course, you just needed to unload, get something off your chest, and don’t really seek or welcome other views, or maybe even brush them away because you mainly are interested in what reinforces your own view…

Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps it is better suited for a diary and not so much for a “social” medium like a forum.

As is often the case, non-aligned expectations can be perceived as “rudeness”.

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Well said, man. Totally on point.

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It seemed like a monthly bass subscription. They just kept coming along at great prices. The almost up to date list is on this forum somewhere. I’ve thinned the herd somewhat and now there are only 16 in the house, with 7 up for sale.

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Text, it turns out, is a terrible medium for spirited discussion.

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