I’ve recently started gigging a bit more with my band. While dealing with concert venues it has occurred to me that it is sometimes tricky to communicate and strike good deals with venues. Sometimes, venues or agents would only offer you to rent the space, which means you need to get enough ppl in (which might be a challenge), sometimes clubs would offer to share some portion of their profits or cover the costs, but rarely do I really know how much I am getting beforehand or when do I get the money (in my case), promises are sometimes easily made and broken…recently I had to cancel just a week before the gig because the backline kept changing (suddenly there was no amp to be provided by the venue), performance time varying from 1h agreed to half an hour and 1,5h again, up until a point where I did not even get the assurance that
I will be able to cover my costs despite earlier promises. What is your experience with booking venues and what have you learned? Moreover, how do you manage gig inquiries - do you have and send in your terms & conditions, and negotiate a fixed price and payment terms (if it is a paying gig)? I would love to take some steps to filter unserious venues / gig inquiries and share some more knowledge on this.
You’re in dark, dangerous waters in search of the slipperiest of fish!!
I’ve done heaps of booking, from local to regional touring and I’ve run into all the things you’ve just described.
The relationship of entry-level-venue and entry-level-band (particularly for a first booking ever) is very precarious, very much I-use-you-so-you-can-use-me, very much everyone looking out for themselves with great suspicion and wariness.
In my world (West Coast of USA) most venues I tried to book for a loud rock band were near-impossible to reach, near-impossible to hold to anything, and near-impossible to communicate with.
At one point, after so many failed attempts and cancellations, I started sending out contracts and riders, hoping that they’d be more accountable if I had strongly worded paperwork, but it just scared them, and I got fewer responses than before.
Conversely, when I was booking for a 5 piece pleasant folk project, it was the easiest booking I’d ever done. Doors opened.
So - part one of my response is, shitty venue communication and behavior is, sadly, one part of the ‘paying-dues’ portion of the rock and roll adventure.
However, you can make it better.
It sounds like you’re already doing everything right - communicating clearly, checking in with clarifications, getting out when things get sour.
That’s all great.
To book, here were the steps that were best for me (last bookings I did were in 2020, so fully admit the times are ever-changing):
Know the venue that you’re emailing, check their calendar, know their schedule, and know their music bookings.
Email venue and request a specific array of dates not just a ‘we wanna play anytime ever’ email.
Make sure you include links to a band page and some live videos so they can see exactly what they’re getting. Studio recordings are fine, but make sure you offer a live option as well.
If they get back and say they have an opening, immediately ask for:
Details for how they do shows
Time of show / length of set
How much do they pay bands / how does money work (bar split / tix / etc)
Do they have a PA system, or do you need to bring one
Do they provide food/drinks/parking? (whatever else you’re curious about)
If you’re doing all that, that’s as good as you can do.
You have to scrap it out in the early days. As your band gets better and draws a better crowd, you’ll see it’s easier and easier to book shows and you’ll have more leverage with clubs.
As you get to high level shows and tours, it’s lovely to work with clubs because that’s their profession and they have to do it well to stay relevant and in business.
It’s an entirely different world.
The beginning world of gigs is, in reality, you emailing a massively over-worked, under-paid bartender/pub-owner/manager who is much more concerned with getting a food and liquor order in, fixing the plumbing and trying to plug the holes in the staffing than accommodating 4-6 people who want to invade the space with loud, loud sound and, potentially, chase all the customers away.
If you keep that part of things in mind and have a little commiseration for the difficulty of the live music venue life, things can be a bit better and easier to take when the communication drops off, and all the balls get dropped, or you show up and the venue double booked, or they try not to pay you (no understanding there - hold your ground!), or the sound guy at the club is chewing his own tongue he’s so high on amphetamines… yeah, it’s wild out there.
Wow! @Gio what a great job putting a very complex task into such clarity in very few words. It’s such a complicated business and most things involved can be learned but not exactly taught.
I’ve been very lucky with my gigging career as I was recruited into an established band very early on as a second bass player. Most if not all of the contact and contracts are not my responsibility plus we are on a retainer which is very nice as some gigs are necessary but don’t pay well and our sponsor kick in the rest.
Most of my “learning” experiences came from the side gigs. That’s where the education is provided for most gigging musicians. I learned quickly that 90% of the venues are not designed for live music, the space, the acoustics, and most importantly, the power are usually (severely) lacking. and most of the time you find that out the first time when you are there setting up on the day of your gig.
Our highest paid member is also our “roadie” he’s a do it all wheeling and dealing for the gig, setting up care taker of us. It’s a different dynamic than other bands. That’s a great thing too, if I were to make the deal, we’d be paid in coins,
that is 1000% me now. if i walk into a bar and there is ANY kind of band/dj/karaoke/bingo/trivia happening i immediately turn right back around. nothing i hate more than going into someplace to relax and have a beer and wind up having to yell at my wife to talk to her. if i want live music i will actually go to see live music.
It all depends on volume to me. If I can have a normal conversation sans yelling, I’m good but if I feel like I need earplugs to keep sitting there, I’m gone.
Back in the day, I like to go to some (jazz) club and watch Larry Carlton, Earl Klugh, and others play sometimes it got so quiet, it’s not fun. Especially the trio band as they can only go as loud as you can here the Double Bass. While I’m not there to have a conversation I agree if it’s too loud, I’d bounced too and I have.
Thanks @Gio for your comprehensive reply. I think that many of these issues regarding the music scene (business) are beyond borders, and you describe a roughly similar environment. Your list of items to check before booking a show is very useful too! I love the way you put yourself in the shoes of the music club owners and staff - I do this as well and therefore, I would add one thing:
Always be mindful & respectful of the venue/ppl that you deal with.
Many of the smaller venues are run by enthusiasts. Here in Austria outside the bigger cities, they are often non-profit cultural associations dependent on donations [that are often uncertain somewhere in the future] and what they make during the night, the ppl running those places have their main jobs and their mission to bring more alternative culture to their home towns which is not always met with the instant support of the local community. I always try to emphasize that I’m not trying to rip them off but instead, it should be okay for both - that’s why I need some certainty to cover my costs as well. I’ve had very positive experiences with such a way of communicating - not always have the gigs worked out (because both sides realize they are not willing to go that far) but in the end, you’re left with friends and ppl understand why you cannot make that gig.
So great!
Yes - it’s really important to know the other side of things in any relationship!
If you want a gig, you have to know what the gig-provider wants on their end.
Never fun when you’re the band, and you have to start playing, and the bar/venue leaves all the screens on, or leaves the house music on.
The only place that I played where I loved them leaving the screens on was a place in Santa Cruz - The Crepe Place.
They would play old weird B movies - sci-fi and fantasy stuff, all sorts of eclectic and strange things, and the screen would face the stage.
I would just watch movies while we played.
and most of the time you find that out the first time when you are there setting up on the day of your gig.
