Yeah. As I said initially, I really doubt the problem is with the DAI here. Throwing a buffered pedal in front of it and adjusting levels would also fix the problem it if was the impedance anyway, in the first place.
Being able to turn off the high impedance is a nice feature when you don’t need it, but I doubt that’s what is going on here. It might help, but the problem is really probably just the levels of the input signal.
Also, I think the typical symptom of running in to low impedance when you need high (or vice versa) would not be overdriving, it would be low or high end harmonic loss (aka “tone suck”). Could be wrong there though, it’s never happened to me, so I haven’t had that issue myself.
So, being able to manually toggle it on or off is a nice feature to have, but I don’t think it’s going to make a difference for @T_dub’s overdriving/saturation problem. It might improve tone overall but only when running the unbuffered signal in. There will also be an apparent change in level, but you can likely just fix that with the input gain.
I looked at that one, and although I may not need it, I do want one that has INST or HI-Z switches on each input.
I saw a review on this one and it is a very good unit, but they pointed out the knobs are all very close together and it can be an issue changing settings on the knobs on either side of the one you are really trying to adjust. My little sausage fingers won’t like that.
UPDATE:
I did not order anything last night because everything I was thinking about getting, pushed the date of arrival beyond next weekend, and I am moving this weekend, so they would arrive after I left.
2 ways to work that is to
1- Ship it here and come back and pick them up when they arrive which would actually be the better of the two options, and is not an issue, I am the only one moving out, and everybody else here will happily receive it for me, but I just figured to wait.
2 - ship it to my new address, but I have not had shipping there yet, and I am not sure if they deliver to the door, the offict, or the mailbox’s that are not all that close to my door, so I will wait and talk to the people there before I have Amazon ship anything there.
Also, they all of a sudden were out of several of my choices, and say they do not know when they will be available.
1 - Moukey - I was going to give it a try and see. I found a guy that did a review on it 7 days ago on Youtube and it looks pretty good, and if not, I will check it back into Amazon and get another , but they are suddenly out of stock.
2 - Behringer Uphoria U22 - this came with an XLR cable and a 1/4" cable (not really needed) and a microphone (might as well, even though it is cheap, I watched Into the Blues channel or whatever it is called, and the guy did stuff with the Behringer and a $2 microphone and it was fine). Plus I like the features on it.
3 - Presonus ione - comes with good software, may be a good unit, lots of people like them.
4 - Focusrite Scarlet Solo - has everything I need.
None of those were in stock (from Amazon, some were 3rd party sellers, and that could further complicate any shipping issues if they were to arise)
The Amp won’t be here til between Sept 28 and Oct 1, so, like said, will wait til I am at the new place.
its on my Amazon Library card, so Ehh, no big to test it, but appreciate watching out for me. Hope that does not sound condescending, It is not meant to be.
This confuses me a little.
If I plug a Mic into this input, it runs thru a Pre-amp.
If I put a 1/4" into the input, the Pre-Amp is off, and it switches to Hi-Z instead, and would be great for passive electronics.
Is this correct?
If it is, and I were to change the connection to XLR thru a cable adapter, or a cable that was 1/4" to XLR, then the HI-Z would automatically be turned off, BUT, the Zoom would not know the difference between a Mic and Instrument being connected, so then the Instrument would pass thru the Pre-Amp?
correct?
Yeah, I got it pretty much under control. The gain is way down, it doesn’t clip, and I turned the Amp off in GarageBand and go direct. The output levels for exporting are down to -3db on the track for my Bass, and whatever they need to be for the song, and the Master Output is -3db.
For Now, as @howard told me in the past was to do this for now and as I get more experience, i can adjust them all for premium results.
I could do that, and Despite me being a Compressor Junkie, I am trying to just get used to going Instrument direct into the DAI into GB. If / When I add an Amp and start experimenting with EQ’ing my sound thru the AMP prior to going into GB thru the DAI, that amp has a Compressor dial on it which @LesterH has said is pretty damn good.
That said, my last recording I added the compressor in GB because some of the notes crossing strings were a little LOW and the compressor brought them up to be more audible.
I will keep experimenting with all sorts of things, and soon I will start playing with effects thru the DAI into GB and seing how all that goes.
This is also assuming I continue on with GB. I might try some that come with whatever DAI I get, and or may give Reaper a shot, at least for 90 days, but I think GB is a great way to wet my beak with all this and is good enough in case I end up staying with it.
Even if I am off a little with my understanding of things as I asked about earlier in this post, and the Pre-Amp may or may not be a factor, and the Hi-Z May or May not be a factor, I will get a warm fuzzy feeling in my nether region just having a Unit where I can physically control this, by either plugging into a combo input with buttons to control the pre-amp and Hi-Z or to plug into an Instrument input (desired) with the ability to turn Hi-Z on and off.
Yeah, you are probably, or at very least mostly right, and it is not even so much a problem anymore, with guidance from you and others here, it is not really a problem. At the very least, the DAI is completely fine, and at the very most, it is only an annoyance.
Only because it lacks the features that give me the satisfaction to know that I set things the way I want them set like I said above. i could go on with this one for a good long time and be COMPLETELY FINE.
Only, this is the Upgrade thread, and I have decided to upgrade things, not really because I need to, because I want to. It is a somewhat parallel upgrade as you have pointed out because this Zoom will do most the same thing as what I am going to. I am not really upgrading for quality. I just like the package of the other units and the look, and the buttons that give me comfort, and that is all it is all about really.
If I am wrong, I return it, and try something different.
PLUS
I am pretty sure that I will be able to get most of what I invest into my new DAI when I sell my Zoom on Reverb, as they hold their value really well.
There are no circumstances whatsoever where you are avoiding running through a preamp. You are always running in to a preamp. It’s fundamental to how a DAI works. The DAI takes the instrument or line input (at similar levels) and runs it through a preamp to feed into an analog-to-digital converter at the proper levels for it to accept, converts to digital, and sends the signal to the computer over USB.
High-Z simply means high impedance. All it does is add some resistance to the input into the preamp.
Warm fuzzies are a fine reason to upgrade. Important to be happy with your gear
Because the information I am reading, and product description either say the opposite of what you are saying, or they are confusing it to sound like it is the opposite. I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying I am totally confused by what you are saying and what I am reading.
Product feature on amazon for the PreSonus iOne.
1 instrument input & 1 microphone input with low-noise, high-headroom, Class A mic preamplifier & +48V phantom power
Product description for FocusRite Scarlett Solo
Its features include a single upgraded third-generation Scarlett mic preamp: with a switchable Air setting to reproduce the Air effect of Focusrite’s original ISA mic preamp, giving your vocal recordings a brighter and more open sound.
The high impedance, high-headroom instrument input allows you to record guitar or bass without any clipping or unwanted distortion
And article on Reverb.
If you want to use a bunch of microphones at a time, you’ll need a lot of preamp-equipped inputs. If you have a synth rig and just need one or two vocal mics, you can use an interface with just a few preamp-equipped channels and six or more line-level inputs.
*Remember: preamps are separate from inputs—an interface might have 16 inputs but only two preamps, or eight mic inputs all equipped with preamps.
So, Again @howard, I am not trying to argue, or show anybody up, I am only listing the sources I am using to get the information that i was posting, and i posted it to make sure my thinking was correct.
And this Is one reason that I am liking the idea of upgrading, or really just swapping out one product of the same level for another might be a more accurate way to say it. I just like the idea of having a dedicated input for instruments that sound like they do not have a pre-amp in the way.
If a line does not have a dedicated gain control, then it is simply getting some fixed signal conversion before or during the A/D converter. This is fine, it’s the same as a line in would work, except probably with instrument level impedance.
Any input described as “high impedance” - this is a Hi-Z instrument input. Hi-Z means “high impedance.” This is generally desirable for instruments.
If something has inputs with no gain, but some are marked as “line” and some as “instrument”, the difference is probably also the impedance. You’d use the line inputs for things like digital musical instruments that produced a line out signal.
It’s true that an input does not have to have a dedicated preamp separate from the internal conversion before and during the A/D conversion. However another point to watch out for - you can still drive that internal conversion to clipping with a mismatched signal level, even though technically there’s no dedicated preamp.
My biggest point I was trying to make above was - changing the Hi-Z setting does not make any difference regarding if it is preamped or not. If it’s got a gain control, it definitely has a preamp, regardless of impedance
If there is a knob that adjusts the gain of the input signal, there is a preamp, yes.
No. They produce a strong instrument level signal. Which may be close to a line level signal, confusingly.
So there’s several levels in play here and actually I don’t think the boundaries are well defined.
There’s mic level - low impedance, low voltage signals.
There’s instrument level - higher signal strength than mic, lower than line. Needs a higher impedance input than mic.
There’s line level - higher signal strength than instrument.
A very strong instrument level signal is probably close to a weak line level signal. I don’t actually know the specific volatges.
Care needs to be taken running line level signals into instrument and mic level inputs. Going the other way is not dangerous but may add severe tone-suck if the impedance is not correct. Hence, instrument inputs are marked as being high impedance - in relation to low impedance inputs like mic inputs.
Thats not the question I was asking, maybe I worded it poorly.
Is it possible for a line in that does not have a pre-amp to have a volume control, but not a Gain control? or will a line in with NO pre-amp have no control at all?
Like on the Presonus iOne for instance, since I used it in the example earlier.
It says it has ONE pre-amp in the Mic input, but that it has a high impedance instrument input, hinting that there is ONLY one pre-amp and it is in the first MIC input.
Or the FocusRite Scarlett Solo that said for sure that there is ONLY one pre-amp being used, and the second input is instrument high impedance with HI-Z on / off (to change the impedance level, I understand that).
So both examples are telling me, or leading me to believe that the 2nd input does not have a pre-amp, but both of those units have a knob for each input,
That is what my question was meant to ask.
Are they bull $h!tting me, and those 2nd inputs actually have a pre amp because they have a control knob?
Weird. Could you link to an example of a device that has a volume control on an input that is not a gain knob?
On the focusrite scarlett solo, for example, there’s a mic input and an instrument input. Both of them have (clearly marked) gain knobs. Both of these look preamped to me.
Same for the Presonus though they are less clearly marked. However one side of the knobs is marked “+”, which would imply boosting to me.
I could be wrong and those could just be an inline pot on the signal but I kind of doubt it, looks like gain to me. Someone who knows more than me would need to comment as well because a simple pot there would seem to me to potentially change the tonal quality as well, but I could be way wrong.
BTW, I see presonus also claiming that active pickups are also line level, which is counter to my understanding, and specifically saying active pickup instruments can’t be used with some of their stuff, like the AudioBox USB. I assume the iTwo is fine as it specifies line or instrument, but the iOne might not be.
The levels stuff is complicated.
The approaches different companies take here is interesting too.
Agreed.
I know that my friend uses the Scarlett 212. He uses a 1/4" into input one and has the INST button ON.
This works for his recordings. I beleive the Scarlett input on INST mode turns OFF the pre-amp, but IDK if it is HI-Z or not when you turn the INST on.
BUT
on some of his recordings, with his StingRay, it does sound saturated, so this leads me to beleive it is a HI-Z.
His Jazz bass sounds fine, I have not heard recordings of his Corvette that is in the shop with my Ray 34 getting a PLEK
So, this is one reason that if I get a FocusRite Scarlet, I plan to get the SOLO because the 2nd channel is an instrument channel, and has a button, but it is labeled INST, not Hi-z, so I don’t know if this is the same thing as a line in, with no pre-amp, and INST means to turn down the impedance,
I too am getting fed up with these companies and how they don’t stick to the same standard.
Also why I will be comfortable getting something with a 1/4 input for line 2, with a HI-Z button, like that MOUKEY that I first showed, or the Behringer Uphoria U22, or possibly the Focusrite or Presonus if I can be certain their 2nd input is doing what I want it to, and does not have a pre-amp.
AYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAA!
Getting over it, about to just get a freaking Zoom U-24 even tho it is way more money and ugly AF.
Don’t know what to say other than it looks preamped to me. Could be mistaken and it’s just a volume attenuator mismarked as gain.
One thing to note - the ad copy says that it has one Scarlett mic preamp (and implying special qualities about high quality Scarlett mic preamps). That doesn’t necessarily mean it is lacking preamps of any kind on the other inputs, it just means that it has one mic capable input.
Like I said, I don’t know, man. Looks preamped to me but I could be wrong. Pretty happy with my DAI which clearly has line-level capable preamps on each input
You’re right that it isn’t as pretty as the scarlett though. Zoom stuff looks functional, not pretty.
Yes, and it clearly states that when you input an 1/4" mono cable that it turns into a line level input with hi-z. If mine had the same HI-Z switch as yours it would probably be just what I want
Hi-Z and Instrument buttons do the same thing. They raise the impedance of the input and bypass the input pad.
There’s always a preamp on every input from an electronics standpoint. When they say only 1 input has a preamp, they are talking specifically about a mic preamp.
On the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, all inputs have a preamp with 56 dB of gain. The line input has a resistor pad to take the level down before hitting the preamp. Any knobs adjust that resistor pad. The max instrument level is +12 so it won’t clip as quickly as the Zoom 22 with a max of +8.3.
Ok, so when I posted the part from the Scarlet Solo’s description:
I left this last part out.
while Gain Halo metering makes it easy for you to set the input level.
That was the extension text immediately after “Clipping or unwanted distortion”
So this “Gain Halo”. claiming to be able to adjust the input level, does this mean…
What do you think, do you think they are trying to market a term here?
Could it be an inline pot on the signal and they are calling it a proprietary term “Gain Halo” because they think people understand GAIN, and would not understand INLINE POT ON THE SIGNAL without further explanation?
Sorry, I did not see this when I asked the Halo Question.
So, this meany that I would be better playing my Active bass with a very HOT pick up thru the Scarlett 212 than the Zoom because I have less chance to distort the signal and saturate the recording?
Is that accurate, or am I thinking about tit incorrectly?
And Thanks for stepping in @DaveT, and proving that the marketing guys are confusing the shit out of me and confirming that @howard was right in his awareness of the products and for standing his ground.
