I could use some advice although I am mostly just in limbo. I am to the Billie Jean module which I get is a tough one but my issue is more long term fretting hand technique than anything. I have just enough private lessons to be using the 4 finger technique, it’s just habit by now and so when Josh goes three fingers I tend to stick to what I know because I can get by so much faster getting the basic groove down.
The Billie Jean lesson is a perfect example of just sticking with the 4 finger and wondering if I want to completely relearn using the stacked technique? Or soldier on with 4 finger as it may pay off later on? I for the life of me can not get my fingers to stack like he shows using pinky and ring and using my index and ring finger on 2nd and 4th fret make things comfortable for me. Problem is the way I am doing it is slow, I know I need to work on the rolling strings technique to get my ring finger to roll up from d string to a string. However I have been working on it for a long time and no matter how many times I practice it is just a mess. I have at least gotten to the point where I leave my index finger stationary on the d string on the second fret while I move my ring up and down on the fourth fret so that my entire hand isn’t jumping strings on every note.
I know he says it doesn’t matter and move on but given all my previous lessons and playing time I feel like I should be a bit better than I am in the way I am doing it already. Since I am not I am stuck between all kinds of ways. I also feel like I know just enough to not be doing any of it right. Lastly the only way I get through it seems it with just so much hand movement, so much wasted energy when I compare me to others playing.
I hate the feeling of being stuck!
I’d love to jump in and offer some suggestions.
Can you post a short vid so that the comments are specific to what’s going on?
Also, just to prepare you, the answer might just be practice it really slowly for 2 months… which is always the most frustrating answer to get… but sometimes that’s the best move.
Thanks Gio! Yes I can get a vid tonight maybe of how I am running the riff. I think that’s the issue I struggle with, what you said. I could go back and go slow to relearn taking that time but should I is the question I guess? I spent a long time learning the 4 finger and trying to roll, not sure I should abandon it and take the time to relearn. It’s not so much that I have to get it right this second before I move on in the modules it’s just more of a long term technique of where do I want to be in a year.
For what it’s worth (and potentially ignoring your current issue with Billie Jean), I don’t consider the one-finger-per-fret (or 4 finger technique) gospel! That doesn’t mean you should abandon it; but it is not the only way to get things done!
Personally, I can’t do the 1-finger-per-fret technique, because of an issue with my pinky - so I do what could be called a variant of the “Simandl-technique” and micro-shifting.
That said, I think it is awesome if you master the 4-finger approach. Just be open to other ways as well, which, in some cases, might prove to be advantageous for a given riff or motif.
In that spirit, there are certainly also different ways to approach (and crack) Billie Jean
Hi @Gio and @joergkutter, here you go; hopefully this explains the technique I was taught previously. Basically you can see my index kind of stays anchored while my ring jumps. At first when I really first started a year ago I would jump my entire hand up to play the A string, I then got it to where I could leave my one finger anchored to save time. I think this method is ok but I should probably really get more of a role from the F# to the C# with my ring finger rather than this huge jump. It looks smooth-ish at this speed but when the fast workout kicks in my fingers are just doing so much more movement per note that what I see @JoshFossgreen doing.
Again I get this may be over analyzing this at this point but I have come so far with this way if it’s not really a great way I need to relearn. Also clearly not to any metronome or anything or trying to keep time there, just wanted to show the pattern.
What I see is really nice technique, but it’s too clinical.
You’ve got great accuracy and approach with that ring finger, but the whole hand needs to be closer to the fretboard. The movements - any quick bass movements - need to use as little muscle/actual physical movement as possible.
I made this video showing what I mean with both ring and pinky fingers. Hopefully you can see what I’m getting at, and try and emulate it.
It’s had to play with this relaxed, close hand position until your fingers and hands are acclimated to this close, minimalist fingering work.
Play it slow, play it close!
Oh, wow, @Gio beat me to it, @lusecannon! I had planned to shoot a video of how I would do it, but… this is WAY better! Count yourself lucky that @Gio was faster
Thanks! It helps so much to see a side by side of this specific riff of how I am doing it and how you are. Makes me see how much my fingers are flying off and when everyone else seems to be effortlessly playing. This is going to take serious practice to get my fingers to stay that close outside of the note playing finger as well. It seems I fly them off to avoid some sort of fret buzz early on I guess.
Makes me see how much my fingers are flying off and when everyone else seems to be effortlessly playing.
Right there with you, I’ve been playing for several months and “flying fingers” is still the 1 major issue of fretting technique that is refusing to fall into place for me. Things like LH thumb position, fret pressure, and muting all naturally developed to where I don’t have to think about them anymore, but I’m probably going to need to take up some specific exercises to keep my fingers from flying off the fretboard so much.
Hey Mike, @Mike_NL,
It’s easy when your a professional player😎 oh and a teacher of bass as @Gio is.
It just takes practice and time and we will all get to Gino’s level👍
Cheers Brian
It’s pretty maddening to just keep trying this 1000 times even with a great video and my fingers just do not do what I want. Fundamentally I am doing something wrong with too much pressure with the fingers that are not playing the note or something. His hands just float above the strings but yet don’t mute the wrong string and can play the right note. I know it takes practice but even at one note at a time I can’t seem to do it just once.
I feel like I have to unlearn 8 months of lessons in order to do this right as I might have used bad habits to play 4 fingers.
I get it!
I would take a break from this and start playing country songs and bluegrass songs.
The bass lines are always root and fifth… the same fingering and pattern as the first 2 notes in Billy Jean. If you can find other musical ways to work on that pattern and technique without it always relating to this Cruel Mistress (thanks for that @eric.kiser) it will be way more fun to work on the technique, you’ll have more width and breadth to practice it, and you will get to have success along the way instead of staring down the twin barrels (Billy & Jean) of doom.
16th note feel is messing with my head… Like physically.
I’m so used to bobbing my head to the quarter notes, and plucking in synch with my head (when it’s either up or down), that these displaced 16th notes completely throw me off. I have to pluck when my head is halfway between up and down, and I just can’t.
I edited the original post here… Billie Jean is a Wicked Mistress
To include a link to @Gio’s advice and video in this thread for any other new folks that need it.
I’d say that as I’m just starting out, I’m having trouble w consistency of my plucking and muting. I am trying my best to pluck across the string like Josh says, but I still notice a slightly different sound off of my index finger vs. my middle. Getting a smooth clean sound everytime is pretty difficult. Any practice tips?
Keep going - index/middle/index/middle/index/middle… (maybe don’t even fret a note; just mute the string and get a feel for the two fingers plucking. And don’t practice it on the E string, but rather on the A or D string and let your fingers “fall” onto the next string as you pluck - it is good to get that feedback and you won’t get that on the E string…
Then, after a couple of hours of this, start working in some accents
Seriously, though, just keep at it… slow and steady!
