riiiiiiight???
I’ve had a lot of Americana, Country and basic rock/pop sessions lately, and I am tired of overplaying… so are the artists and producers!
This is it - the zen exercise in restraint and total groove.
4 Likes
Unlike @Gio I actually fear my basslines are usually too simple. I’m not proficient with fills with lots of notes crammed in yet. I fear sounding too amateurish… where is the line?
5 Likes
@gmunatsi - I hear you!!
A good bass line is one that sounds good, and helps the song sound good. There are infinite good bass lines per song. It all depends on what the band likes, what you like, and what makes the song work. The line is the difference between bass line for the music vs bass line for the musician(s).
But! I know the feeling. It is great to play simple as a choice. It is frustrating to play simply due to lack of options or limitations.
My advice:
The feeling of “Is this bass line good enough” is always the question to ask, and you will know the answer by whether the song is being moved the right way. Is there a build to the big moments? Is there extra energy where it is needed? Does everything fit together with the other parts?
Those questions are always important.
The question of: “Are there enough notes / Is this bass line fancy enough / does this bass line showcase my talents enough / Is this bass line complex enough” These are all questions that try and sneak into the head while we’re playing. All of these questions are real dangerous!! It takes you out of hearing the song and the band, and you hear only you. The focus moves from the music to the individual, and it will almost always lead to worse music.
If you’re playing a bass line and there’s a part that you hear in your head/ear every time, and you just know it BELONGS in the song, and it’s fancy, then you do it. Go for it. That’s being led by the music.
I jumped at this response because struggle with this ALL THE TIME. And every time my brain clicks over from “ooh… music is good - here are notes that will sound good” to “…hmmm… maybe I should put a fancy thing in here,” or (even worse) “…I’m worried these people might not think I’m a badass - time to rip a bass fill!” The music suffers, I suffer, I lose the groove, and my head is out of the game. Getting focus back is difficult.
As a bassist with a lifelong battle with this bass-ego disease, I can only say - laugh a lot. Aim for simple and groovy, and let your ears and the producer and the band members guide where and when to add fancy-bits.
If your technical abilities aren’t ready for the fancy bits, then just make sure you have a solid and regular practice routine to work on the chops, and get comfortable with whatever fancyness you like.
Best of luck!
8 Likes
Makes a lot of sense… the summary being, listen to what the song needs and give that to the song and not to yourself per se,
Usually, my MO when I encounter a song for the first time; I focus on time and groove while sticking to roots and maybe fifths depending on the genre. As I get comfortable I add passing notes… and try not to mess up the time and groove as I do that.
thanks @Gio I’m encouraged to keep on.
3 Likes
Ha!! Keep on, indeed! That quote up there could be a line straight out of a session musician master class.
That’s it exactly.
If there are fills and styles you want to learn that we all can help with on the forums, holler! Otherwise, I swear - you’ve got a real solid approach.
2 Likes
I like this. I’m having to play every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. With a full-time job away from music, Monday to Thursday I find myself working more on the material to be played rather than other areas where I feel deficient but I’d really like to grow and improve technique etc. @Gio this advice is gold.
2 Likes
I’m struggling to relate something that I like to do, with things that was discussed in your class. I found that if you start with any note, say C at the 3rd fret, then play 3 or 4 notes then that C, again, you have a coherent measure. How many notes can you squeeze between the original note and still have a coherent sound.
Is this how you create a scale? Would that lead note be the “root” you referred to in your course. A lot of things have become clearer and I have small, very pleasant, musical epiphanies almost every day.
3 Likes
I’m not sure I totally understand what you mean. You mean you’re making up bass lines, not thinking about scales, just starting with your root note, then trying out somewhat random other notes by ear?
Either way, scales aren’t really things you “create,” they’re pre-exisiting structures that you learn and use, because (almost) all the music we listen to uses them. Most “made up scales” are just an existing scale with one note subtracted or added.
So it’s more likely that you would find a handful of notes that sound good added to your root, and those notes fit within a larger scale that includes other notes (that you aren’t playing, but maybe someone else in the band is).
Is that helpful? Please clarify if not, I’m a little confused.
2 Likes
Your answer is more than adequate given my inability to properly formulate my question. But your statement that, you can’t create scales forces me to ask, how many scales are there? I practice 24 scales (four bars each) that I got off another site. Are these the only ones, if not, is there a site to get the rest? I wont list all 24, but some are titled, F# major, C minor, Db major, B Flat Major, G# minor, etc. Are these some of the existing scales to which notes are added and subtracted ?
2 Likes
Yes, this is also something I am trying to wrap my head around. The bad news is: there are many scales. The good news is (probably) that not all scales are equally important.
How I understand a scale is a sequence of tones (typically increasing in pitch), where the particular sequence of whole tone and half tone steps is characteristic for the scale. Scales can contain a different number of tones (before they repeat), i.e., a pentatonic scale has five notes, a major scale has 7 notes, and a chromatic scales has 12 notes, to give some examples.
So, ALL major scales (regardless of whether it is a C major or a B flat major) are characterized by the sequence W-W-H-W-W-W-H (W: whole tone step; H: half tone step) going from the first note of the scale to the last (e.g., for C major: C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C). Now, if you for example take these same notes but start on the F and play F-G-A-B-C-D-E-F, it is NOT the C major scale, but obviously a very related scale. It is not a major scale because the sequence of whole/half tone steps is now: W-W-W-H-W-W-H. This scale happens to be called the lydian scale (here: F lydian), which can be considered a mode of the major scale (there are 7 modes of the major scale, depending on which note you start the scale). It is different than C major (even though using the same notes) because it “sounds” different, on account of the different sequence of whole and half tone steps. You can see how that gets complicated fast.
I won’t go into more detail here, but any combination of whole tone steps and half tone steps (and with different numbers of notes before you reach the octave and start over) allow for a large variety of scales. Btw, often the scale is “explained” not with the whole tone and half tone steps (as above) but with the intervallic relationship of all the notes in the scale, i.e., the lydian scale above could also be described as 1-2-3-#4-5-6-7 - so in F lydian, you have the B there (#4), whereas you would have a B flat in F major (which, as one of the modes, can also be called F ionian).
To briefly answer your last question: yes, you can for example add a “flat 3” to a major pentatonic scale (1-2-3-5-6) to get the blues major pentatonic scale (1-2-b3-3-5-6). And the major pentatonic scale itself can be considered the major scale, where some notes are subtracted (often the 4 and the 7).
Good luck!
3 Likes
I should nuance that statement - there’s a very small chance that one is actually inventing a ‘new scale,’ but it’s possible. But you would need some years of good theory understanding and stuff to even know if you were doing that.
Anyway, the answer to “how many scales are there” would be a higher number than “how many scales do I need to learn that are commonly used in actual music”. I’m not sure how many scales there are! There’s at least:
- The major scale
- The modes of the major scale (6 total)
- Minor pentatonic scale
- Major pentatonic scale
- Blues scale
- Melodic minor
- Modes of melodic minor (6)
- Harmonic minor
- Modes of harmonic minor
- Whole tone scale
- Diminished scales (whole-half and half-whole)
- Other assorted less common scales
The good news is that you can get through most music just knowing the major scale and the minor scale (which is technically one of the modes of the major scale). If I were you I wouldn’t worry about learning every single scale, just start with a couple and actually get to know their sounds well by a) learning songs that use them, and b) exploring them with improvisation. I tend to teach them in this order:
- Major
- Minor
- Pentatonics
- Modes of the major scale
And then onwards from there, but that alone can take 2-3 years to really understand. Which is fine, because there are a bazillion cool songs you can learn and understand with just that.
Hope that helps!
5 Likes
Thanks for the info. When I found portions of the scales I practice are included in most, if not all the songs I play from the R&B Bass Bible I wanted to learn more. I can’t put in to words how much practicing these scales have helped me. The scales I practice have become routine and I was looking for more to practice, especially scales that include notes above the 9th fret.
2 Likes
Have you tried playing major and minor scales up and down the neck yet? I.e., you can take this shape for C major:
And you could move it around, like try it up an octave:
Or try it in another key just by grabbing a root note on the E or A string, then playing the same finger pattern, here’s A major:
6 Likes
Thank you very much for your patience and information. I think I understand a little more. So, what I do, is play the same note sequence of the scales I have at the higher frets. I hate to belabor any subject, so there is no need to respond. I will practice the scales above until they become routine.
2 Likes
Hi Josh,
Asking “what are you struggling with” is a great question. One of the songs my band has on our play list is Melissa by the Allman Bros. Band. I am struggling to wrap my head around this one. Although the music is in the key of E major, there seems to be some other scales thrown into the mix here, namely the E Mixolydian and E Aeolian (natural minor). I know both the E Mixolydian and E Aeolian, but now I am coming to think this is in the E Pentatonic. I can easily play Melissa by staying on the roots, but I am trying to make the bass line a little more interesting than that. To do so, I have to understand whats going on.
I have download all the bass tabs for the song and I am currently learning the bass line by memorizing the tabs on Songster, of course this has led me to try and figure what is going on.
Any light you or Gio could shed on this song would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Brian
1 Like
Brian!
Excellent questions. I won’t be able to dig in here for a few days, but know that I’m thinking about it, and I’ll put ears on it as soon as I can! Allman Bros are so fun to play…
4 Likes
Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.
2 Likes
I’m struggling trying to improve my left hand technique and kill my flying fingers. I’m using the method everyone seems to recommend (very slowly playing box patterns like chromatic, major and minor scales up and down while keeping all the fingers on the strings as you fret higher notes). It’s slowly working, and the scale practice won’t hurt me at all, but man reprogramming the brain like this is much harder than I thought 
I’m doing this now, mid-course, because I have found that some of the fast exercises are getting hard for me while the fingers fly. Not because it takes too long to get the finger to the fret, but because my accuracy sucks when they fly and I end up fretting the wrong thing. I have average size hands with shorter than average fingers - my hand size is all in the palm - so I have to pay extra attention to technique anyway to avoid pain. Lots of shifting, etc, as I basically only have three frets of reach until up over the 9th fret or so. So, I figured I may as well take the time to nail the technique now rather than later.
The nice thing about this is it is something you can pick up the bass and do for like 5 minutes at a time and have zero guilt
3 Likes
I am also finding that this is in the hexatonic scale? ie: Pentatonic just adding the 6th. Thoughts?
1 Like