What's the deal with effects and pedals? (Also: sound in general)

Yes, I do, and it is great. I have never owned a POG, but they are very expensive and the Sub n Up does WAY more then a POG does.
But, if I could send it back, I would probably trade it for the TC Electronics BrainWaves, it does about everything the Sub n Up does and more.
IDK if you would any of the MORE, cuz it does like Phasing, Wah, and other modulation wave things.
The Sub n Up is GREAT. I would highly recommend it. I would use it OVER the MXR one, and I would use it with compresion, but what do I know :wink:

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Or, on my board, 3 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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I love you! You get the idea to buy something in your mind, and BAM, its bought!!! Way to go!!!

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Yeah, and that’s a bit of a problem too. I just discovered that the Sub n Up I purchased is actually the mini, which I don’t want. The seller didn’t state that in the listing, but I was just looking at the photos (which I should have done previously) and in fact it’s the mini. Here I thought I was getting a great deal on the Sub n Up, when in fact I paid retail for the mini. I blame myself as much as the seller.
I will turn around and sell it as soon as it arrives. I will take my loss as a lesson learned to be more careful in the future.

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also what I do (DOD FX84 + Line6 LA-2A) with very subtle settings.

but again, nothing mandatory.

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Oh I have been awake, but I have been out trying to secure an apartment to move into. turned in the application for this one a little while ago. Fingers crossed, it is vacant, so I could get it as early as the 15th.

Now, the thing about pedals and sound, is that it really is, like most things people are saying, up to your ear.
I like what @terb was saying about NEED, and how if you don’t know if you need it or not, and you are happy playing without it, then no, of course you don’t need it.

The thing is, when you talk to people and get their take on what YOU should do, the NEED starts to fade out as the WANT starts to kick in (GAS)

WE need to eliminate this from above “talk to people and get their take on what YOU should do” and hear this as people telling you WHAT THEY DO and what you could do if you like their sound. So if you are talking to somebody telling what they do to create their sound and what you would need, you should ask for a sound clip of what they are talking about.
Then if you like it (for example if somebody gave you a clip of the TS), you can say, ok, I may get that. and if you don’t like it (somebody playing thru an envelope filter) you say, “NAH” forget about that.
Or if you hear somebody playing and like what you are hearing, you can ask them to explain what they are doing to get their sound and you can decide to get the pedals they are using.

OR

You can watch youtube videos all day, just finding random pedals, and finding the ones that make noise that is music to your ears.

Bottom line, like Terb, @DaveT, @howard, @joergkutter have all said, it is up to you.

I think DaveT had the best suggestion about Compression, and the first video he showed does an excellent job of expelling it with video example of what is being done to the sound wave with compression. Such a good job that Joerg finally got it. (don’t mean to pick on you, but I am very happy you were able to make sense of it more with that video). So I think the beter idea, instead of Getting rid of it, or upgrading it (which would end up being my suggestion to you, a better compressor IMO, would possibly be more enjoyable for you), would be to understand HOW is is helping your sound, and then you could see where your UNCOMPRESSED sound would benefit from it, and then you would learn to hear the benefit when it is on. Kind of like when you first started playing, and learning scales, and if you played the wrong shape on the C major scale and hit a bB minor 7th instead of B major 7th, you probably could not have been able to tell from the sound, you would have known from watching your fingers and going Oh CRAP, I played it wrong. But now that you know the sound and can hear the intervals, you know right away that you heard the wrong note. It is subtle when you don’t know what you should be hearing.
Same goes for compressors, when you learn them you can hear them and know what you are getting.

That said, I am a compression junkie. I have 3 pedals right now, I love each of them SOOOOOO much, and I don’t want to get rid of them, or if I do get rid of one, IDK which I could let go.
Plus, I would still buy a compressor to play with if it was something I wanted to try out.
If it showed up and was an dyna comp style (not to pick on yours, but to me I don’t get the type of compression that I like from them) I would kick it aside, fllip it, and move on. But if I get a good Optical comp, or a VST, I get excited about what sound I can get out of them.
And I only like a pedal if I like the sound I can get out of it, if I can dial it in easily.
The Keeley Bassist Limiting Amplifier I just got to flip, cuz it was brand new and a ridiculous low price, I plugged it in, and within about 30 seconds I got a sound I LOVED out of it and I was hooked
I want to try the MXR M87 compressor. Onvilabs says the sound is a teensy tiny bit better then the Keeley Bassist, BUT he also says it can be very tricky to dial in the sweet spot, and there have been issues with units making noise and not working, so I would try one, but if I can’t find my sound in a few minutes, I would flip it, bye bye

Same with other types of pedals, I LOVE PEDALS. I like to play with them, make different noises and learn about them at the same time. I learn about the BRANDS available, I learn the difference between cheap clones and expensive boutiques. Sometimes the cheap clone is as good, or good enough next to eh boutique. Sometimes they suck.
I learn about the ergonomics of the pedals. for instance, I like mini pedals just fine, IF they are not lacking features that the. same MXR BOX size pedal has, and as long as they don’t have a bunch of tiny control nobs that I can’ even get my finger thru the middle one without changing the outer ones cuz my finger turns them at the same time.
I like doing this, it is fun, makes me happy, keeps me busy.

The only point I am trying to make is, I do it my way, and it suits me. you can do it your way, and it can suit you.
YOUR WAY could be a little of my way, mixed with a little of Howards way, mixed with a little of Terbs way and a bit of anybody elses way. There are no rules, and you always know we are all here for you.

But, I am always late to the game, cuz by the time I get here, you have already bought and returned 4 pedals and a bass. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:. Just kidding
Sorta :wink:

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When I tumbled down into the rabbit hole of pedals, I had no idea it was so replete with landmines and so infested with rattlesnakes.

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Big :+1: to all of Laurent’s post.

That first bullet point really resonates with me because is actually an important professional principle in clean, maintainable software development, and words to live by. The YAGNI principle. You ain’t gonna need it. Don’t over-engineer up front, just make the cleanest and simplest system you can and iteratively expand it later.

Applies to pedalboards too (and a lot of other things in life.) Don’t pre-hoard a bunch of stuff you think you’ll need later; only add pedals when you know you want them, and get rid of the ones you don’t use. If you’re not getting anything out of your compressor, and you’re happy with your tone, you probably don’t need it.

One of my favorite terms ever. My friend made this as a drunk typo a few years back and we decided it’s a perfect term for the state. “I’m not drunk! I’m alcool.”

Yeah me too, I mostly just use one subtly at all times, with the second for more audible crunch. But I do it for audio effect; as far as overall track level goes, I manually compress that in the DAW post-processing by normalizing item regions. A little harder but you get a lot more control. Since I am already compressing it’s usually not too far off but I am a perfectionist that way. You could do the same with a multiband compressor plugin in the DAW.

I’m just used to the idea of post-processing. I can’t imagine making music without extensive post processing. It’s actually a big part of the fun for me.

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Hmmmm…

Looks like a Boss PH-1R clone.

$32 with Prime 1-day new. Gotta love these Behringers in TC enclosures :slight_smile:

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Yes, the video that @DaveT shared really was a great example of what is going on and what the idea of compression is and how you could benefit from it. Now, I am still not able to hear all the differences (in all those steps), and I might not like the final tone that the sound guy dialled in, but I can certainly appreciate how much better the end result sat in the mix - that was quite amazing! I really had no idea how much is going on AFTER you recorded your track…

However, that beckons a new question/conundrum: with so much (and I guess it was still fairly moderate what he did in that video) going on in post-recording, at which point is the “product” no longer mine, but equally well his (i.e., the sound engineer’s)?? At which point do I ask myself “Is this still me playing here? Is that me sounding like that?”? Where does my input end and the engineer’s start?

Maybe that is a bit akin to the old “paradox” of whether, after a number of years when pretty much all cells in your body have been replaced by new ones, is it still you somehow anyway or not really??

Ah, OK, these questions require some of @terb’s ‘alcool’ or other consciousness-enhancing stimulants to tackle…

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This is one reason why producers are credited on records :slight_smile:

And also why I consider post processing as important and fun as playing. I might be weird that way but this is the kind of thing I always got in to, even back when software was much, much worse.

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Nah, I can start to see that now! I have never lost much sleep about anything else than playing music, but it is starting to dawn on me that there is so much more going on (at least for recorded, and probably also for live-mixed, music).

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The nice part about it is you can then look at making music kind of holistically. I don’t have any illusions I will ever become a Kiyoshi-level bass virtuoso, but at the same time I am pretty sure if I put the time in to it I can make actual kickass music as a complete package with basic competence on the chosen instruments, with a lot of work done in post.

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Collaborative art forms have a magical nature this way. It becomes difficult to say where it ultimately came from. Theatre is very much the same way. No individual can get too attached to controlling their contribution. It’s a nonlinear interactive flow of ideas, creations and modifications between multiple people. The better everyone serves the big picture of the communication the better the result.

I was once in a workshop where two people would sit across and face each other. The first person would start telling the second person a story. When the facilitator rang a bell, the roles would switch and the second person would continue telling the story from where the first person left off. When the bell rang the person telling the story stopped immediately, even if in mid sentence. At first this went slowly, maybe switching every paragraph or so. As we went in the bells sped up until we were switching off every sentence and by the final stages we were contributing every second word to the story. When we were finished we had a complete, cohesive and fascinating story that neither one of us had the idea for. It blew my mind to think of where that story came from.

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That’s a cool story!

I can certainly appreciate that, and there are, especially in jazz, duos or trios that have been working and playing together for so many years, they have an almost telepathic understanding - and it shows. And that is also why many groups establish long-term relationships with producers, I guess!?

But, what if I have a one-off experience in a studio recording one or two of our songs, and there is just no time to establish much of a mutual understanding that could lead to a collaboration that is synergetic? What if the sound engineer “just” applies his go-to magic formula to my bass track? He doesn’t know me and how I play, what I can play, what I can’t play, why I play like I play, which sound I like and so on. And he will not be overly invested in a one-off job. So, the end result may be great, and better than anything we’ve had so far, but if I feel I don’t sound like me at all after post-production, I might not be overly interested in that end product…

Am I overthinking this?? Thanks for bearing with me :smile:

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I think you have very accurately described a real potential scenario. In this case you have the ability to be your own producer, so it will be necessary to select a mix engineer with that in mind and establish those expectations. Your participation will require time and $ over more of a mill approach. You may have to ask yourself how much do you want to sound like you and how much do you want to listen to the engineers advice. The engineers approach may change based on you having had the time together to describe your goals and vision.

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Thanks, Dave - very eloquently put!

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I have one on the way from Reverb

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Great question, and I am answering this before reading down the rest of the thread, so this may have already been stated, so pardon me if this is a repeat of what somebody else already said.

this is the primary reason I really llike having my pedals, set up my way, so I can get the sound I want. i really don’t know that I will ever take my sound to a sound engineer, and if I do, I seriously doubt it will be one so technical. But to my my sound is important to number one ME, number 2, ME, number 3, YOU Guys who I share it with, and number 4 Me again.
For reasons number 1, 2, and 4, I love to play with compression pedals, because it is the number one effect that I believe improves my sound. And really it is not my sound I am looking for it to improve, but my playing. I love my raw RAY bass tone, and to hear the playing evened out and presentable really makes me happy.

But because it can be such a subtle effect, and when used the way I like compression to be used, it is just that. I get excited for a compression that does medium limiting, and a boost, but not looking for my tone to. be colored in any way, or as small a way I can get it dialed in.

Once I can get the way I want it (and this is a feature that makes a compressor GOOD to me, the ease in which I can get my unity gain set, and then the compression and boost thre after) I can feed it thru any effect I want, or i can play clean into my DAW. I have not started playing with effects on my bass lines within the DAW as of yet, and I am not sure how deep down this path I will want to go, based on your original question, of how much of that mix would be me playing.

That video is a great way to SEE what compression is doing, and for that matter, I can play / record thru Garage Band, and add compression and change compression and SEE what the pedal is actually doing, I don’t need to use the compression within GB, or find a compressor patch / add on to use in GB if I can dial my pedal in just fine, so I can use it to record and live play, at which point I can say, that is my sound. Yes it is being compressed, and it may be going thru other effects, but i can reproduce it playing live and / or recording a live track.

and again, like it has been stated over and over, if you are happy with your sound, and you don’t think you need a compressor, then you don’t need one. The only time you need one is when you are looking to get something different from you playing sound.
and it if perfectly acceptable to not LIKE / USE / WANT / OR NEED one today, and then decide you either LIKE / WANT or NEED one tomorrow.

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Oh DAMN! Phaser is my next pedal, and probably last one. I was thinking about EHX Small Bone or Bad Bone, and now I see this. I like TC E, and my Nether Octaver was dope, just the Sub n Up was Doper, so I traded up. I can’ see needing more than This or the EHX for a phaser, so I doubt I would have to upgrade this ever.
I assume these are clones of the MXR 80 phaser. IDK weather the Boss PH-1R is the same or not.

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