What's the deal with effects and pedals? (Also: sound in general)

@T_dub
Here is another example of a pedal mixer. I like it. I have no use for it. I want one.

@DaveT
Does the Orange Bass Butler do what your talking about?
There was a lot of hype around it when it cam out. To me, it seems like it’s missing at least two outputs for bi-amping without having to use the XLR connections.

It splits the signal into clean (low) and dirty (high) and sends each one out to a separate XLR connection. Which is great if you’re bi-amping to a board or a DAI. If you want to bi-amp to actual amps, you can’t. It has a single amp out that recombines the signal. Seems like an odd design decision for something built for bi-amping.

3 Likes

That is awesome

3 Likes

Thanks for the tips! I didn’t know about one and the other I didn’t really look at carefully enough. This is a good addition to the research.

This would be candidate for what I’m wanting if the EQ knob were to be a HP or LP filter. I could look into if this could be modified.

I glanced at this and it seemed like it was so designed around bi-amping that it may not do what I wanted along with the $$, I just moved on without really understanding it. Ironically, what I want IS for the signal to be recombined. I don’t know that I’m paying so much to do this though.

When we start getting into that price range, I’m starting to looks at the Mod Duo that allows all the crossovers and mixers you want. It has 2 inputs, so I could do the HP send and get it back again. I didn’t really want to spend that kind of money when I don’t need any of their FX.

SFX had already figured out that this idea would be cool, but they don’t make it anymore and I haven’t found a used one yet. This is exactly perfect. I’m keeping my eye out for one.

image

SFX also made one without the crossover that I can get on Reverb for $92. I’d have to mod the send to have the HP filter on it. This, so far, is the best idea I think. The filter is not a difficult circuit mod . . .

Meanwhile, I’ll mock it up using an overkill rack DSP black box to get proof of concept and see if I like it . . .

4 Likes

This is why I’m liking the Mod Duo so much. Unlimited signal routing inside. This is one of Steve Lawson’s configurations . . .

4 Likes

Wow, that’s awesome. Costs less than I expected too.

3 Likes

I also just got a Boss GT-10B, got a heck of a deal

7 Likes

That is crazy elaborate. I’m looking forward to you getting one just so I can see what all you do with it.

I’m down on the other end of the spectrum. Eating crayons and paste thinking how the Tri Parallel Mixer would let me plug in lots of cables that I can then unplug and plug back in again.

I’ve come to realize how my desire for a separate amp head and cabinet has more to do with my love of modularity and plugging things in than any practical application. :rofl: :joy: :rofl:

5 Likes

back to the power supply thing, in the idea of building a very compact pedalboard I found those two models :

don’t know about the tuner quality, but it could be the most compact option. the other one is still very compact.

2 Likes

I found these.
I can’t say how good the outputs would be, but they seem smaller then that one. that said, I use Caline Power Supplies, and am very happy with them. However, they are not true isolated outlputs like they claim, but they do the trick for me.

Stax Is a smaller pedal, if space is a really big deal.

This Joyo looks about the same size, as the Caline, but the power all comes from the top side of the pedal, may be better for cleaner routing if that is important

This Iron Horse, a little more expensive like the Joyo, IDK if it is a better quality product or not. It wants you to think it is, but IDK??

The Caline looks like the least expensive, the Stax looks like the smallest. the Joyo, twice the price of the Caline or Stax, but has great routing options, not sure if the higher price equates to better quality, but I have been impressed with the more recent line of Joyo pedals, so maybe?

This Koogo looks like a pretty good inexpensive brick too, smaller then the Caline with similar outputs (300ma) with 2 selectable voltage, one being 500mz
Again, probably not the true isolated outlets you are looking for.

3 Likes

thanks ! I didn’t knew about those tuners with multiple power outputs. as I said earlier my old Korg Pitchblack has one 9v output but it’s not isolated.

It might be interesting to be more precise about this isolated outputs thing : the goal is to avoid ground loops. those ground loops appear when the signal ground and the power ground are the same, on multiple devices. as there are loops made with wires , they act like small antenna and the electric potential is not strictly the same everywhere on this ground, so it ends up as noises.

So the goal is not really to have a fully isolated output for each pedal, which means that each pedal has to have its own transformer secondary coil (which could be wired into one big transformer, it’s not necessarily one dedicated transformer). The goal really is to have isolated grounds, and they even don’t have to be really isolated, they just need to be separated by a resistor.

So what I want to say is that it can work and avoid the ground loops even if the outputs are not “fully” isolated. But it can’t work if the outputs are simply wired in parallel.

'hope it makes sense.

4 Likes

Yeah. I have one of the cheap Donner PSUs that doesn’t technically have isolated grounds, but it has choke coils on each of the terminals to block crosstalk. I haven’t noticed any noise at all with it.

3 Likes

That one is nice in that it has a 500mA out. The other two pedal ones do too. The Koogo has eight 300mA outs which is also cool but having a 500mA out is nice.

1 Like

it’s only useful for digital pedals really. a typical analog pedal drains way less than 100mA, maybe something around 20 to 50mA.

3 Likes

Thats the thing I can never remember to say. “Choke Coils”. We have been over this, so I know to say they are not fully isolated, but I can never remember to say Choke Coils (Thanks once again @howard)

Yeah, like I said @terb, I use Caline power supplies. They Claim they are individually isolated. I have never looked inside, but I believe Howard HAS looked in his, or a similar one and was able to determine that they use choke coils and claim isolation because it is easier to say for advertising.
So I am willing to bet that my CALINE does the same thing. I don’t experience any noise that should not be there.
My compressors and OD / Fuzz pedals, but I run them thru the noise suppressor so I don’t have to hear it in headphones all the time.

But, there is no strange noise or hiss / hum that should not be there, unless I introduce a bad guitar cord, or plug in a bass that has a bad input jack or pot that is getting interference from twisting and touching the wall or something like that.
I am completely happy with mine and i have two.

I found these pedals while I was looking at tuners again (I sold my TS-2, well traded it for my BC-1X really) and saw the Stax, thought it was a cool looking pedal for a decent price, and then I realized it was doubled as a PS, so i searched for others.

NOW, I have not noticed that any one of the pedals have stated ISOLATED,. which MIGHT mean they are not using choke coils inside them. I think somebody will need to get on and see how it does. if it does fine, keep it, if not, send it back.

3 Likes

My Caline has 7x 300ma and 1x 500 ma. ONe of the 300ma outputs is selectable to 9v/12v/15v/18v, and the 500 ma output is 9v/15/18v.

I think the Koogo is the same, but I would have to double check to see it does or not.

EDIT: Yeah, the Koogo is just a brick of 300ma 9v. Which is fine unless you are trying to power up a Zoom B1-four or MS-60B

2 Likes

that’s what matters :grin:

3 Likes

Or a tube preamp :slight_smile:

That will probably need 12V too though.

1 Like

Yeah, there are lots of other things, I just said the Zoom ones cuz I did have two on my board, and it took both power blocks to power them (one 500ma output per block)

@itsratso just had a 12 or 15v pedal that needed some power, that Cab simulator pedal from Hotone I think, or Mooer or something like that

1 Like

Someone else had a weird voltage pedal with reverse polarity IIRC. It might have still been Mike (itsratso) as well.

I wouldn’t worry about that detail, that’s just how mine is. Anything that will make it more expensive for a signal to go between one pedal and another, rather than to ground on the same bus, is sufficient. Like @terb said, resistors would be fine too.

Choke coils are probably sufficient because they offer very little resistance to DC but can act pretty resistive to AC, and so would resist signal flowing back into the PSU from a pedal on the ground wire.

4 Likes