Where to go from here - Signal Chain / Gear Question

Gear
1

Hello good people od Bass Buzz!

I have been collecting (read sporadically buying) all kinds of music related equipment before I decided to take the plunge, buy a bass guitar and subscribe to Bass Buzz lessons.

Now I want to use what I have to have the best bass tone that I can get, but somehow, I am not reaching a level of satisfaction that I was expecting to reach.

Everything starts with the Squier Sonic Precision Bass. :grin:

Equipment which I accumulated is:

Caline Wine Cellar - Driver and DI
EHX Bassballs
Behringer MDX 2600 Dynamics Processor
Behringer DSP2024P Effects Processor
Behringer DSP8024 Digital EQ and RTA (not used at the moment)
Wharfedale Pro Connect 802USB Mixer
Sennheiser HD 280 Pro Studio headphones

Out of all this, the best thing that I achieved was plugging bass into Wine Cellar and splitting the signal in following way:

  • XLR out → mixer channel 1
  • Out → MDX 2600 → DSP2024P (Analog Chorus, 100% wet) → mixer channel 2

While keeping channel 1 at 0 to +3 dB and varying channel 2 from -15 to +6 dB I could dial in the intensity of wet to dry signal. Mixer has 3 band EQ centered at 80, 1k and 12k with 15 dB cut and boost. On both channels 80 was set to -9 dB, 1k to +6 dB and 12k to -9 dB.

Channel 3/4 was input, to mix in the Bass Buzz lessons from my phone.

And this gave me semi-satisfactory tone, but I wanted something more. And as I started experimenting, things went south pretty fast. :confused:

First, I wanted to include Bassballs in the signal chain, but nothing worked as I would like it to (or as it works on YouTube videos).

So, I am thinking where to go next.

Although I am exclusively playing through headphones, because of the neighbours, I started to think about bass specific gear, such as either combo practice amp or just amp head in 50 - 75 W range.

Am I thinking in the right direction or is there something that I could do with the equipment that I already have, that I do not see at the moment?

Looking forward to all the input!

Cheers,
Rob

3 Likes
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Could you be more precise on this specific point? Everybody on here will certainly have his own opinion on what the best bass tone is :grin:

One thing that might be causing issues, could be the signal level on channel 2. But it might be fine, it’s just that I don’t know any of the gear used in it :face_with_spiral_eyes:

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Like Krescht said, without knowing what the best bass tone is to you, I could only tell you my favorite. One thing I could mention is:

Out, how? I assume not XLR… TRS, TS? I play through 2 channels on my mixer with wet / dry signal also. If you mute the dry channel, how does it sound? Are you getting hissing, and how is the volume compared to the dry side? I go heavy into effects on my wet side, multiple reverbs, multiple OD’s, plus a multi effect pedal and compressor. Balancing the sound level on that channel is a PITA sometimes. I’ve had an easier time getting a sound I’m happy with by using a 2nd DI and XLR to the mixer. It gives a more balanced tone imo. I am by no means an audio engineer though, it’s all been trial and error on my part.

I also ended up taking 3/4 out of the loop and moving it to it’s own speaker. The lessons or whatever song I was working on just made it too muddy sounding. Not sure how to get around that playing in to headphones.

Edit: One other thing, individually each channel doesn’t sound great the way I have it mixed. My goal is to combine the signals into something that sounds great (to me). The dry side sounds punchier and colder than I’d prefer on it’s own and the wet side sounds too… wet.

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4

Thanks for the feedback!

The tone is hard to describe, but somehow it lacks life. Highs are too high, lows are too low, playing with EQ helps a bit, but not too much. Boosting mids gives a bit of clarity, but E string is very muddy, even with tone knob at 100%.

Yes, it goes out through TS out on the pedal. Picture below for reference.

IMG_7835
IMG_78353024×4032 3.4 MB

There is no hiss, but with 100% wet chorus applied I get only the modulated copies of the dry signal in the channel 2. Compared to dry signal, wet signal is much quieter.

Anyhow, I do feel more and more that having bass dedicated equipment would not hurt. :laughing:

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5

This is me too.

This is not a bad idea. Mostly what it will give is a reference point for what a solid bass sound is supposed to sound like.

I reccomend either the Rumble 100 or the Ampeg Rocketbass RB-112. Both are 100 watts with a 12" speaker and are solid options at a fair price. The difference between them, one has a Fender sound and the other has an Ampeg sound. If you play both, one will stand out to you.

You could go down to the Rumble 40 and get the same results when using headphones. I wouldn’t go with the Ampeg 30 watt, since it doesn’t have an out for use with other equipment. Whereas, the Rumble 40 does have an XLR out.

The problem with pedals that aren’t made for bass, is the electronics filter out the lower frequencies. Not a problem for guitar, since those frequencies typically contribute mud to a mix. For bass, they can make your sound anemic.

You’re definitely going in the right direction. Experimenting with all this is part of the fun.

I would disconnect everything and just do bass > mixer > headphones and see if you can get a bass sound you like. Then start adding things back in, one at a time, and see what changes.

Pedals can be a mixed bag and there’s usually a trade off with getting the effect you want and keeping your sound. As long as you focus on keeping a bass sound you like, you’ll do fine.

I’m not familiar with the Wharfedale mixer. If you need to use the Wine Cellar to get your signal in to the mixer, the DI out should still work if the Wine Cellar is off. Other than that, the mixer is acting as a headphone amplifier. Don’t depend on its EQ controls. Most of what people call “character” or “warmth” happens between the frequencies of 80 Hz and 1k Hz. The expectation is, you will already have your signal dialed in, before it gets to the mixer, and the mixer will address minor changes.

The Behringer EQ, on the other hand, should let you make a lot of adjustment to your sound. More than any amp would give you. It is supposed to be very frustrating to program. If you get a handle on it, you should be able to avoid buying more equipment and you will learn a ton about what good EQ knowledge can give you.

Keep us posted on how it all goes. :cowboy_hat_face: :+1:

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This 1000% percent. Eric’s whole post is great but this snippet in particular is the answer.

Edit: I use a Mackie ProFX mixer but I try not to rely on the EQ on the mixer itself. EQ is one of those things that imo can get out of hand if you tweak knobs on everything. I personally use the EQ in my Boss multi effect so that if I feel like I need to change anything, it’s a single place to make the change.

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Maybe I’m just too old school for this era but it seems to me this would be your best approach for now. If you’re just learning to play other than what you can get from a decent low wattage amp I’d suggest you stop worrying about nailing a perfect tone and for now just focus on learning the play your instrument the very best you can.

If you don’t want to invest in a small amp and want to continue to use headphones only all you really need is a really good quality preamp like this one and decent set of headphones. This preamp uses the very same front end as my 350w amp but also adds a HPF and tonally it’s as good as it gets. You won’t need most of the rest.

Magellan-Pre_0003_3_4
Magellan-Pre_0003_3_41000×1000 116 KB

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It would seem I got lost along the way by exploring all the different gear and having unreasonable expectations.
:face_with_peeking_eye:

As suggested by @eric.kiser, I have unplugged everything, plugged bass directly into the mixer and just started to play. After some time I added the DI/driver pedal (Wine Cellar, a BDDI V1 copy) and tweaked everything to be pleasing to my ears. With this I believe that I have a good baseline for falling down the rabbit hole. :innocent:

Next steps in chase for the ultimate tone will be a tuner pedal and a bass specific amp, either combo or just the head.

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It is certainly worth watching this video, if you haven’t already.

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Hello, back again with an update! :innocent:

I recently ordered a few things to finally sort myself out! :rofl:
A certain Laney BD-PRE preamp came in the mail earlier today and I spent some time getting to know it. Now it is a completely different story! :sunglasses:
Here is the photo of my current setup.
Bass directly in preamp, preamp through DI into the mixer and tuner in preamp through output.
DB-PRE has the headphones output and aux in, but aux in is very silent, even with iPhone at full volume.

IMG_8360
IMG_83603433×2143 1.87 MB

I will now build upon this setup. Looper pedal (EHX 22500) is already ordered. Bassballs is for now disconnected, I will test it later.

Cheers,
Rob

4 Likes