Josh,
I was watching this video again at lunch today, and had a question about using melody in the scale.
If you are say, playing with a guitarist, and he’s just strumming chords. Does this mean that your key center moves with this chordal nodes on each measure?
For an example, take Amazing Grace (written in the key of F): F / C7 / Dm / F / Dm / F / C7 / Am / C / F / Bb / F / C / Dm / F / C7 / F
So, for however many beat under each chord, I would be free to use the scale under that root note? ( I hope this question makes sense).
@JoshFossgreen can reply more authoritatively, but to me your post makes sense and is exactly right. Basically you can play within the current scale of the chord progression.
The only exception I would recommend is to avoid playing the diminished fifth if the progression goes to a major VII/minor II.
I’m not sure I understand the question, but I’ll take a shot:
The song of Amazing Grace is in a key.
The key center is a family of 7 notes (in this case, F,G,A,Bb,C,D,E)
All the chords in Amazing Grace use and share those same 7 notes. The difference is the order and unique sound each chord makes when you build a chord from each of the root notes indicated.
The only scale that I would recommend playing to improvise or explore scale in this song is the F major scale, or - more specifically - the notes F,G,A,Bb,C,D and E.
I would not change to a Bb major scale on the Bb chord.
I would not change to a C major scale on the C chord.
The question (if I’m interpreting it correctly) touches on what we call “modes” of the major scale.
I’d be very surprised if there wasn’t a BassBuzz video that explained these perfectly, simply and cleverly in the near future.
I think what @gio says is: the center of the song (Amazing Grace) is in F major, and all the chords lined out by @kwt7667 are diatonic to F major - thus, you can just keep playing the notes of the F major scale over ALL the chords; no need to change to Bb major, A minor and so on…
However, I guess what @kwt7667 perhaps also is asking whether he can take whatever chord is current and start a scale from that root? Yes, but it would not be, e.g., the Bb major scale, but the Bb lydian scale, and for the A minor chord it would be the A phrygian scale and so on. All these scales, however, use the notes from the F major scale (this is what diatonic means).
Yes, that should work… and you should be able to use the other notes of the F major scales also; perhaps most as passing notes (e.g., on your way from root to fifth or when going back down to the root).
That said, I think I had understood the original question more in terms of soloing than in terms of bass line construction, but maybe that was just what I wanted to understand
If you build the correct (either major, minor or dominant 7, in this case) from each root note as per the chord chart, those are the CHORD TONES that you’d choose from.
You’ll see that all of those notes exist in the key of one flat: F,G,A,Bb,C,D,E which is the key signature for F major.
The notes that will sound best, smoothest, most unified to the song that will connect these chords, supply walk-ups/downs, fills, etc will all come from the same batch of 7 notes.
When chords change, it doesn’t mean the key changes.
Most often folk songs and pop songs change chords, but the chords are all related in the key signature.
I always joke with my students that I need to make a book called 1001 ways to understand the Modes.
It’s a strange topic, and the road to grokking it is different for everyone. It deserves way more words and examples and visuals and audio examples than I’m giving it… and I’m still not sure if I’m even answering the question correctly!!!
@Gio - I love this statement! Having been (and still am) one who is not overly indulged in actual music theory, I tend to lend more attention to what my ear perceives and my brain acknowledges when it comes to playing music. It doesn’t mean that I don’t know my scales or anything,… I guess I just kinda like to fall back on that old Star Wars Episode IV scene… “Use the Force Luke”… and close my eyes, listen to the music, and try my damnedest to lock in…
I’d say that it is a “road” for sure, implying a journey, to understanding it. Something new about it just clicked for me from your explanation. And I thought I finally had my mind wrapped around it, at least in a kindergarten level sort of way. It’s still so weird to me that this is how music “works”, when you get to the nuts and bolts of it.
Haha I might have 80-100 to contribute to that book. Never seems to click for people if they only learn 2-3 of them. Why is this the hardest thing ever to teach?
@kwt7667, @Gio nailed it. This connects to the concept of ‘diatonic chord progressions,’ which I talk about in Module 8 of B2B.
Another angle that might help - when chords move, the key might not change, but these things DO change:
The current root note
The current triad (and other chord tones)
Because of that, if you’re playing bass on this Amazing Grace progression, you can think in a “moveable” manner if you’re using chord tones ( F major triad on the F major chord, D minor triad on the D major chord, etc.), and in a “static” manner for using scale notes (because the F major scale is the ocean containing all the water of the chords (wow where did that analogy come from)).
Wow did I ever get a lot of good info from my question. @Gio absolutely understood my question perfectly. You too @joergkutter This is stuff that I’ve been wondering about for years! I can’t wait to get further along, but my bass skill will just have to catch up with my music theory. I’m just now starting Module 4.
This is coming into better focus now. One more question:
This piece is in 3/4 time, so in the first and third measure the guitar has got Bb and Dm respectively, so what options does the bassist have in an example like this besides choosing the root of the cord and just holding onto that for 3 beats? There’s a lot going on the treble and bass clef’s. Can these notes provide a clue to something more creative? As they line up, can the bassist look for other notes in the key of F?
Or how might this work in the reverse? Do all these notes in measures 1 and 3 comprise the cords Bb and Dm respectively? Or am I just over simplifying this?
I think this is exactly what @JoshFossgreen was referring to in his reply above:
So, yes, you could use all notes that make up the Bb triad in the first bar, i.e., Bb - D - F, and then F - A - C in the next (you could stay on the C for the last quarter), then D - F - A in the third and so on. You will find, these are also pretty much the notes that are used in the melody and the bass. Coincidence? Hardly
Thank you, Gio, Josh, and everyone. This is making sense. A door is opened! Can’t wait to learn more, and as my bass skills progress…this is going to be a lot of fun!
Lanny - this is always the best way. Music gives you its perfect understanding through your ears. If you can hear it and play it, that’s all there is. The theory part only happens when people are trying to talk about their musical knowledge experience.
That’s when terminology shows up, and we have to turn tangible, auditory sensations into abstract concepts. = Music Theory.
RIIIIGHHHHT???
I think a big part of it is seeded in terminology. We learn about the “F Major Scale” and it starts from F. It is F. F is the scale.
The idea that the F MAJOR SCALE (that is F and all things F) actually contains 6 other equally viable and usable scales / chords / musical homes is a conceptual leap in the abstract world.
It’s an obvious extension of an idea in the musical world, but finding words and terms that explain it successfully is challenging.
Analogies like this are what make sense to me.
This is a lovely one.
Let’s call it way #247 to learn the Modes.
. . . but every time I think I’m starting to understand theory, I fall back another step.
