Lithium Ion 9V rechargable batteries bass compatible?

I just looked for lithium ion 9V batteries and if I can avoid it I would not use the single use and throw away kind. I would like 2 or more rechargable ones. But Ni-Cd rechargable batteries aren’t really long term because of the memory effect but when looking those Lithium-Ion 9Vs up I noticed that they are just called 9V because of the form factor, not because of the voltage. The voltage is different. It’s 7.2-8.5V

Has anyone tried using one in an active bass before and does it work or does it cause problems?

Willing to try it out if no one has but won’t order if it will be useless anyway. I literally have no equipment using a 9V anymore. No. I don’t plan on getting effect pedals for the foreseeable future.

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It’s been at least ten years since I’ve used rechargeable 9v batteries, but my experience was that the charge doesn’t last very long. Maybe the technology has improved since then, I don’t know. But I recall that I had to switch them out often.
For my Ibanez active bass, I buy 9v batteries in a pack of a dozen on Amazon fairly inexpensively. They last a good long time as long as I remember to unplug the bass when I’m done for the day. I don’t mind the expense.

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Depends. Were you using the “normal” kind of rechargable batteries you get in a shop and are charged in a charging device?
Those are usually Ni-Cd, don’t last very long and have the memory effect.

That’s why I was interested in the Lithium-Ion rechargables, chargable by micro-usb. The one I linked are 600mAh but the time they last should go up with that value if they work at all. I’ve seen up to 1000mAh ones.

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it should work but the least voltage you have, the least dynamic range your preamp will have (until it just stops to work, when the battery is dead). so it’s not really a good thing that the actual voltage is less than 9v.

… but it depends. some preamps may sound good (fat/warm) with a lower voltage. it depends from one circuitry to another.

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Thanks for that info.
So worth a try if I don’t mind the money lost if it’s useless after all.

I’ll sleep on it and probably order tomorrow.

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I think from what I’ve read, the starting voltage of the 9V rechargeable battery depends on the model and probably what you pay, found this on web:
An alkaline 9V is really 9 volts, but a rechargeable " 9V " battery is initially 9.6V, 8.4V, 7.4V, or 7.2V, depending on the model in question.

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Thanks. I’ll comb through the online markets and look for a higher voltage version. At least 8.4.
It also seems that the voltage isn’t entirely consistent. According to product description it can vary depending on the charge.

Something I don’t understand at all is the statement that with the first charges it may be lower and then go up!? Not depending on how much is it charged but on how often it was charged which is confusing me regarding the chemical basics about rechargables of both versions (ni-cd/li-ion) I learned in school.

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Rechargeable batteries usually work better with systems where the power supply has a wide range of input for a fixed output.

Let’s say you have a power supply for 12V and it accepts a wide range of battery voltage like 6V-18V. This means the power supply circuit should regulate in a way to disperse the extra tension if Vin>Vout (by releasing heat) or pump up the tension if Vin<Vout (using switching circuits to charge and discharge capacitors…etc).

Li-ion batteries are designed to work with this kind of supplies and they have a longer curve of voltage drop during their life time.

Below is the consumption curve of the battery you have linked to.
image

However the amp circuits on a bass (as seen here on MK 1 ) do not seem to have this kind of power supply circuits that would condition (regulate) the tension to always have the most efficient power.

This might be due to noise and/or cost reduction but the result is when the Vin is lower than what the circuit is designed for, the signal starts getting cut off and eventually can’t be amplified anymore. I hypothesized what voltage that might be for this circuit I know of

Single use batteries however has a much flatter graph over time!
image

I am super new to the instrument world and did not have a chance to analyze many amp circuits on market but I have used a lot of different types of rechargeable batteries and ultra capacitors in a variety of standalone systems. I would love to see other inputs on that matter.

The batteries you linked to state that they are good for “e-guitars” maybe they would need less frequent recharging in respect to what @PamPurrs used before but still most probably you won’t be using the full capacity of this battery with your bass causing degradation over time because of the lower cells not getting refreshed by full discharge and recharge cycles.

Still I think it might be a good idea for eco sustainability…

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Seems I was too worried about the voltage. While @terb is surely right that a lower than specified voltage might result in not enough for the preamp it’s not like the 9V standard batteries consistently output 9V

The voltage is shown in the graph as the blue line.
measured values of Duracell 9V Ultra Power E-Block Batterie MX1604 (so a normal battery):

And here measured values of GP CR-V9 Lithium 9V

So not only does the 9V battery only deliver 9V at the start - and then even more than that. It drops faster below 8V (at the 989s mark) than the Li-Ion.
Regarding the time the rechargable last that also seems to be longer compared to a standard although as already mentioned that is tied to the mAh value.

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I appreciate you taking the time and looking it up. I was doing exactly the same while you were posting and somehow our infos don’t match up.

I trust the measured values of the source I posted so your statement is confusing to me although the graphs don’t show the one I linked in the initial post.
Also the manufacturer (GP) advertises the rechargable as something for E-Guitars. Basses are not mentioned but should work for both if it works for one.

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not at all, for sure. I was more talking about the maximum voltage (or the “starting” voltage with a new battery / new charge). but yeah, the graphs shows clearly that the lithium battery performs better.

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Good luck finding a NiCad 9v battery. They’re all Nickle Metal Hydride now and the “memory effect” you’d find hasn’t ever been nailed down, other than cell capacity mismatch tripping charger cycles early. Go searching for the actual history of it, based on satellite issues never quite reproduceable.
Just buy a few 9v NiMh battery and a decent charger.
Lithium Ion batteries are cool and all, but they’re not as stable a chemistry as you might like to think.

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For those I have the same experience as @PamPurrs does. Even without the memory effect they don’t last as long as the single use kind and while being eco-friendly it becomes too much of a hassle. Then I’d opt out and do the same as @PamPurrs. You are right. NiMh is the standard since the 90’s. Don’t know how I fumbled those two in my head. My experience with NiMh rechargables is still bad. I was content maybe for a month and then it got worse and worse. Maybe not memory effect but the rechargable wasn’t as effective as it was in the beginning.

I also found a possible reason why my info doesn’t match up with @Fahri. I looked up Li-Ion but those weren’t rechargables. It’s still single use it seems and maybe like with the other kind of batteries rechargables aren’t as good and consistent.

I decided to just take the plunge and try it. The money isn’t that huge an amount and if it works I’m quite happy with my solution and if it doesn’t not much is lost. I decided to try out the blackcube 9V 750mAh.

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Yeah the “lithium” batteries are single use while “lithium ion” ones are rechargeable…

I think here is an interesting idea to make best of Li-Ion batteries:

Most switching regulators move at much higher frequencies but I am curious if harmonics would create any problems…

The circuit should be customized and might be better packaged of course. No need to use the actual casing of the battery. That is just for show.

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Here’s my rechargeable batteries. A box of 8 is good for a year or more. To recharge them, I just send $20 to Amazon. :smile_cat: :guitar:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AVK3NMU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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To recharge them, I just send $20 to Amazon.

LOL!

8 Batteries per year??? You must be working in shifts with your family to play the bass 24/7 !

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@Fahri

I said “A box of 8 is good for a year or more.”

The operative is “…or more”

I have no idea how long this box of 8 batteries will last. I’ve had this active bass for three months now and practice with it every day for many hours. I just put in the third battery yesterday. The first one went fast because I kept it plugged in 24/7 just to see how long it would last. Keep in mind, you don’t have to be playing or even have the amp powered up for the battery to drain if the cable is plugged in (which is why I hate active basses).

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@PamPurrs, I got my first active bass pretty recently. It came with the battery already in the compartment and I don’t really know when it was put there. However there was a little tag about a setup inspection from early 2019. So if it was never used 1 battery per year is fair game. (kinda opposite scale of what you have tested!)

After reading this thread I made some googling around and most people suggest that the batteries would go about a year for seldom use or six months if you play heavily.

I guess there is a switch integrated to the 6.35mm jack that turns on the circuit when you plug in your cable. Another good thing about Alkaline batteries is that they have really low self discharge rate. So if unplugging the jack simply disconnects the battery that battery will stay fresh looong time. If you leave a charged Li-Ion battery on the table you might find it empty after a surprisingly short time.

There might be also other issues about leaving the circuit on for extended duration like:
-the circuits warming up,
-life cycle of filtering components degrading,
-things getting damaged if the power outlets are not grounded properly and if there is a surge on the grid

I envy you greatly for having time to play many hours everyday… Between work and my three year old I go to bed happy if I play 1 hour each day.

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They work!
(let’s see for how long but)
THEY WORK! I turned the volume a little bit up and played a little bit before changing the batteries. Then I changed the batteries to compare volume.
I also tried the 3 EQ settings: all noon, all full, all low and compared those.
My ears aren’t really perfect or trained but it sounds good to me with the Li-Ion. If something changes or when it’s empty the first time I’ll update you. But if it goes as planned I’ll always have one charged and one in the bass.
Charging was also fast. According to the manufacturer 1,8h - might be true. I didn’t really keep time because it doesn’t matter to me. But it wasn’t much longer for sure.
The also came with a USB -> 2 micro USB split cable for charging:

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