Replacing Tone Pot with Nordstrand Tone Drop

I was wondering if any of y’all had swapped out your tone pot for the Nordstrand Tone Drop. Did you think it was worth it?

The new configuration would be Volume-Volume-Tone Drop on a passive Ibanez jazz bass.

I’ve already replaced the bridge pickup with a Nordstrand NJ4SE I found at steal, and am ready to finally swap out the neck to an NJ4SE as well and wanted to start with new pots as long as I was in there mucking about. I’ve test driven a couple of the higher end Ibanez models with the Tone Drop, but none of them were on passive basses where it replaced the regular tone pot.

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Well if it does this, how could I resist?
" This .047uf-.1uf cap switch is an orange, two headed monitor lizard that speaks a simple, southrange grit atop a subtle, simmering murk. Just as the heart might subtly react with ancestral repulsion at the sight of an ancient reptile vibrating intensely just above the stream, so too does this twinned switch deliver an equal bite of private phenomenon. It provides a convenient way for players to navigate a space between the temperate and traditional character called .047uf, and its slightly more dramatic and swampier sibling called .1uf. More specifically, the .047uf allows remnants of the high end to beam through; and if perceived by the player as not so tangible a thing as a direct beam, then perhaps more like memories of the egg days leaking into the mind of an incapacitated dragon doggypaddling the bayou. In the case of the .1uf cap, it is the hand that yanks the Thing just beneath the bright-bound surface. Everything capitulates an electric, light-drowned mud, and in this darkening forms the aperture through which you might dig, with intention, into the flow of the tune. Dive toward the murk.
Hint: besides these two characteristics, we invite you to seek the resonant peak—an ephemeral ridge as vibrational as it is dissipative. Instructions: roll off all caps to enable an understanding between the two, and allow the signal to flow through your rig with only a sliver of viscera painting its fullbodied back. This is the road to the peak. Follow it wisely. If you dare to look over, don’t hesitate. *React.*Whiptail! Like a lizard."

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lol I know I know Nordstrand’s product descriptions are absolutely unhinged :rofl: I do really like their pickups though

Functionally when I got a chance to play around with the Tone Drop I liked the bottom end boost, but that experience was only for about 30ish minutes in a Guitar Center on a bass that cost significantly more than my first car. So just curious if anyone has more long term experience on a more modest setup.

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Well, I like the idea.
Frankly anything that can make my heart “subtly react with ancestral repulsion at the sight of an ancient reptile vibrating intensely just above the stream” while making me feel " like memories of the egg days leaking into the mind of an incapacitated dragon doggypaddling the bayou", not to mention yanking my Thing, has got to be worth a try.

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This remark made me read the description!

As far as I understand it, you still need to use your own (or any) hand to yank your thing, so the Tone Drop will not make a difference, right? :slight_smile:

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@myowlhasantlers the description reminds me of ‘the futility of mortality’

however, as far as I can tell, the Norstrand Tone Cap is a pull/push potentiometer with two capacitors. That’s about £10 in bits and five minutes to solder.
Why not just push the boat out and get a Varitone - 6 way rotary switch with five capacitors and a bypass. £14 on ebay (I have two).

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I would get a Stellartone if that’s the effect you want, it has 9 capacitors to give 10 tones (1 is bypass). I have one and it’s pretty cool
https://reverb.com/item/68221863-tone-control-tonestyler-bass-ten-short-multi-capacitor-selector-switch-stellartone-custom-guitar-bass-electronics?bk=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJqdGkiOiJiMjY2MTBhNC1iODZmLTQ1OTEtOGI3NS1jNzlmNzc2MmIyYWYiLCJpYXQiOjE3NTA5NzQ1MzQsInVzZXJfaWQiOiI1OTA1MDk2Iiwic2Vzc2lvbl9pZCI6IjBjM2FmNWMzLTk4NjEtNGE3NC1hOTA5LTkzMTBiMjc5YWNmYyIsImNvb2tpZV9pZCI6ImFiNzk3YzU4LTRiMWYtNDI3ZS1hMTcwLThjYzc0MWE4OWJmZiIsInByb2R1Y3RfaWQiOiI2ODIyMTg2MyIsInNvdXJjZSI6Ik5PTkUifQ.0WCpzv16BhS1s-AQoYEio1TN5iM2_iuOvtSL_jDPLGo

Although it needs to be volume blend tone (not v v t)

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On a tangent is Mrs Whippy Head Diane Morgan?

The 2007 Gibson SG Special that I acquired had an older 5-cap + bypass version. I had an interesting email conversation with the owner of Stellartone. In addition to the Tonestyler, the SG had a 3-position switch, for selecting neck, both or bridge pup(s). It still had the two standard volume pots. The final email I received was a design engineer’s wet dream. Long story short, dual volume controls can really mess with the tone of the instrument. His recommendation was to leave both volume controls at max (required for the Tonestyler to have any impact!), control the volume via the amp, and use the pickup selector and Tonestyler to dial in the tone you want. He reiterated that adding the 3-way pup selector was THE best option in addition (of course!) to replacing the tone pot with his Bass Ten Tonestyler. Note that the “Long” and “Short” versions refer to the length of the threaded stem on the Tonestyler.

Stellartone

Volume-Volume-Tone wiring

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They are all variations on the Varitone, and making one yourself is def an option

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True. But homemade is not going to be this clean and compact.

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Ah interesting! Thanks for recommending the varitone, reading up on it gave me a much better understanding of what these switches are doing.

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Yeah for sure

What is it about the Stellartone that you like? I’ve not played about with one so definitely curious.

I’m gonna bookmark it for future potential tinkering but for the moment I think I want to stick with the V-V-T configuration.

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ha! I mean reading about them it definitely came to mind. My inner chaos goblin is always clamoring to try out new DIY projects :rofl:

I didn’t even know how to solder properly before I started modding my bass so it would be fitting.

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You could totally make one!

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Since this thread is still plugging along, I’ll go ahead and post this tl;dr email I received from the owner of Stellartone.

==========================

Although this is not well-known or universally-respected in instrument designs and wiring: all hi-Z passive tone controls MUST BE hard-wire connected directly to the 100% unattenuated pickup outputs… “pre-volume”, as we say. Otherwise, an attenuated volume pot delivers a reduced voltage signal through the capacitor network, while that same circuit remains connected in parallel to the amplifier input. This signal flow error creates phase cancellation and comb-filtering… commonly call the “mud tone” by Gretsch players.

I would caution you that attempts to educate the masses on a discussion board may be futile. People may never be able to hear the problems, or may feel that this tone circuit defect is “not a bug, but instead a feature”… as the old joke about computer software goes!

The archetypal example of this wiring error is the 1963 Fender Jazz Bass, when they deleted the dual tone pots, properly-wired to the pickups, in favor of a cheaper “master tone pot”, now improperly-wired to the output jack (and therefore the amplifier input at zero ohms).

With this design error, a proper LCR resonance circuit between the pickup and the tone pot is only possible when the selected pickup’s volume pot is set to “10”, creating the required zero ohm parallel connection between the pickup coil(s) and the capacitor. To solve this problem in a three-knob “volume-volume-tone” instrument, with or without a redundant 3-way pickup selector switch, Stellartone offered the DUO SIX, which featured two independent six-position capacitor networks accessed via two cable… one for each hard-wire connection “pre-volume” to each of the J-Bass pickups. With this correct signal flow, either pickup’s volume pot could be set to any level of attenuation while maintaining the required zero ohm connection between the pickup and the capacitor circuit.

There are a variety of “alternate” wiring and switching schemes you might employ to allow your “post-volume” shared ToneStyler to connect at zero ohms to your choice of pickup. Without additional switching, you will be stuck with a “post-volume” improper circuit, which does not allow you to attenuate of blend your pickups without an adverse tonal effect. A popular work-around is a push-pull volume pot for the bridge pickup. Connect the ToneStyler to one half of the DPDT slide switch, and the two output terminals directly to each pickup’s HOT wires. Push the knob IN, and the ToneStyler is hard-wired to the bridge PUP… pull the knob OUT, and the connection changes to the neck PUP.

With that said, please note that the extent of the tonal degradation is proportionate to the amount of attenuation / resistance between the pickup and the “master” ToneStyler or tone pot, as well as any series resistance which might be inserted by a conventional tone pot.

For example, with a “post-volume” ToneStyler connection, and the volume pots set to fairly high loudness (>“8”), there is little phase cancellation introduced, but the high frequency capacitor circuits in the upper third of the ToneStyler’s array will cease to function… due to the volume pot’s inserted series resistance. The high numbered circuits will again become audible when the volume is restored to “10”.

For a worst-case scenario to demonstrate why all tone pots MUST BE CONNECTED “pre-volume”: take any stock Fender J-Bass or Gretsch guitar, set the tone pot to to ZERO (full strength), then adjust the volume between “10” and “4” as a helper compensates for the loudness at the amp’s input. As the volume is attenuated, the flawed wiring flow will demonstrate this “mud tone” defect in a dramatic and nauseating manner.

As far as the unusual wiring in your bass is concerned, note that almost all Gibson six-string guitars incorporate both a 3-way pickup selector switch PLUS dual volumes. However, both of the dual tone pots are properly-wired directly to the 100% hot pickup signals, at the volume pot input lugs. The idea is that either pickup can be pre-set to a desired loudness, then instantly selected via the 3-way switch for dynamic purposes… or alternately, an uneven blend of both pickups may be set and accessed via the 3-way switch’s remaining in the center “both pickups” position. Additionally, because the volume pots are properly-connected with the input on the left #3 terminal, and the output on the center #2 “wiper” terminal, the parallel resistive loading on the pickup is unchanged (at 500kΩ, for example) across the knob’s adjustment range. This maintains a constant DC resistance / Ac impedance value on the pickup, so the pickup’s response does not change with loudness. Conversely, when improperly-wired to the center “wiper” terminal of any volume pot, the pickup’s DC resistance and impedance varies wildly vs volume, so the pickup only sounds “correct” with the volume “on 10”.

You might ask why anyone would ever improperly-wire volume pots to “short out” a pickup to reduce loudness? Quite simply, this is the only way to wire a pair of volume pots without using a 3-way switch, and still be able to “solo” one pickup without muting the entire output. This is why a J-Bass has two “backwards” pots, while a P-Bass has a “normal” volume pot. If a 3-way selector switch was added, the j-Bass pots could be wired normally, and you could solo a pickup via the 3-way switch… like in a Gibson six-string. However, you’d still be stuck with the impossibility of connecting one shared tone pot to either pickup “pre-volume”, as required for proper tone.

So again, please consider the push-pull switch modification above, to solve this issue.

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I kind of disagree with this. The High-Z reference is overall total impedance and nothing stated there really decreases the impedance.

And also, since it’ an A/C circuit, the actual placement of the capacitor in relation to both the pickup and tone resistor (usually, a pot) is immateriel as long as it is still series or parallel (depending on wiring).

@terb would be the person I would ask here though, he is much more current with electronics than I am.

The part about the additional resistance from the volume pot changing the phase is correct though, though the tone pot and cap do too.

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V - B - T or V - T - 3way has its advantages, For one thing on a jazz bass if the two volumes are set differently you’l get 60 cycle hum. There’s a case to be made is all.

What is nice about the stellartone is that you have 9 capacitors, so you can dial in from a dark to a bright tone easily, and they have their own flavor.

Also the switch has detentes (I think that’s the word) so once you settle on a tone for a song, there’s no guessing on how to do it again. You just count the clicks.

And it’s niced to have a bypass.

People have discussions on what cap to choose, here that’s moot. You just pick the cap you want for a song. You’re not locked in.

The downside is cost

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Damn you all,
After reading this I am having evil thoughts for one of my ongoing project basses of replacing the volume pots with on/off switches (because I only use them at full or zero anyway) and putting in one of these fancy variable tone pots, maybe with ceramic rails to be super fancy.

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