What's the deal with effects and pedals? (Also: sound in general)

In case anyone else is interested, here is the secret decoder ring to translate the fake names used in the Line 6 POD X3 into what actual models of gear they are based on . . .

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Congrats. You wonā€™t regret it! :smiley:

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Really nice. I am not sure I would need the Microtubes with the AfterShock, but it couldnā€™t hurt anything. And I have not tried that compressor, but it should be incredible, and is on my list for ones to try (I am a bit of a compression geek).
Very solid start, you could easily add a tuner, and be ready for a show.
There are other fun things you could add, but none are MUSTS.
Well
Maybe a pedal that does Amp Sims and Cab Mods, one you can load yourself.
You can do all that on your computer if you want, but it would be for home recording more than for playing live with friends, at a band practice or jam session and for a live gig. Or get a Line 6 Bass Pod or Bass Pod Pro (rackmount). you canā€™t add our own, but they have all the good amps and cabs you would want to use.

If you have a good live Amp, then you donā€™t HAVE to have those, and then that pedal board with a tuner added is ROCKING?

PS, Get rid of the MicroTubes, then you are color coded, and looking sick. Black and Orange, you will have the best looking pedalboard anywhere. LOL
The joke is Orange is my color, so Yeah, I am gonna say things like that

Switch the order, put the aftershock before the VMT, and use the VMT for your tube amp color; just leave it always on with light or no distortion. Itā€™s one of the best sounding pedals on the planet.

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Ok, do that, after you paint it orange :wink:
Sound is subjective, I think its OK, and have others have sounded better to me in tests and whan playing around, but it does sound really good. Just with the Aftershock, you kind of get any pedal you want with all the customizability of the pedal.

I see a lot of people recommending tuner pedals. Something wrong with a clip-on? I have the Polytune one. Seems to work fine for me. Sure, aesthetically it isnā€™t as nice thoughā€¦

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Just using the VMT for its color, EQ, and slight drive, it still sounds amazing and brings something the Aftershock wonā€™t.

Check it out here (last example) compared to some really good amp sims. The VMT alone sounds better than most actual amps.

Inline are nice for a couple reasons. They track better for bass than clipons (especially with a 5, but also a 4), and they make a nice mute switch. The Boss ones are also a nice buffer to put at the start of a pedal chain to prevent attenuation, and serve as a power suppy for other pedals if you wish.

They are more accurate, they, when put at the front of your pedal chain, even if it is in front of a multi fx chain, acts as a kill switch, to turn your sound off with one click (used to tune whit others not listening to you tune, but it works to just turn it off for a moment, switching basses, and any other reasons.
I like that they are accurate, but I donā€™t actually have one right now, I use the one in my Zoom MS=60B, but it does the things above too.

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Yeah I love the Zoom boxes for tuners too, really easy to use with the big display.

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Iā€™m not sure that them being more accurate is a fact if you get a decent one. Or at least not really noticeable to the human ear. Seen plenty of videos on this and here is a quote from the big boss Josh himself:

ā€œTC Electronic Polytune/Unitune Clips are the only clip-on tuners I own, and theyā€™re way more accurate and better for bass than any other clip-on Iā€™ve tried. Would totally rely on one even for intonation work if I had to.ā€

Mute functionality I understand though. And like I said, aesthetically itā€™s not as nice. And probably cheaper clip-ons arenā€™t as good as cheaper tuner pedals.

So to sum up, I think the Polytune clip-ons are plenty fine. Maybe a good pedal tuner can get that extra 0.1% accuracy, but it also isnā€™t as convenient when Iā€™m on the couch with my Vox amPlug 2. I might still look at a tuner pedal at some point though.

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I think the way I would put it is, I donā€™t think there is anything wrong with good clip-ons, and you shouldnā€™t buy a tuner pedal just to have a tuner if you already have a clip-on. But, if you have a pedalboard, one of the first pedals you should consider is absolutely a nice tuner.

Put another way, Iā€™m in the process of selling all my pedals - but I am keeping the tuner :slight_smile:

Even though I have a tuner VST.

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I was just answering your question for why people recommend them, istnā€™t that what you asked.

Yes, the Polytune clip on is in a class of its own, and most people getting a clip on are getting a more budget model to save money. If I were getting another tuner that was not a pedal tuner, I would still probably get one that you plug into, but that is just me.

I have had trouble with clip onā€™s tracking my E string as a B string, and they take a good long time as well.
Just my experience. if you are happy with your polytene that cost around what a good pedal tuner cost, that is awesome,
Real value is how happy the owner of the product is.

Accuracy and repeatability is a whole other thing that we can just forget about for now

The other advantages you get from a pedal tuner, like a buffer for your pedal board, which is pretty important for anyone with a pedal board and a bunch of true bypass pedals. Having the pre-amp in your bass helps this, but if you are using a passive bass, then you really need a buffer on your pedalboard. You can get a buffer pedal, but then you waste a spot on the board, why not make it useful as a tuner, and the other thing that a pedal tuner is great for, a kill switch. between songs, sets, instruments, bathroom breaks, and to tune silent.

Those are reasons that they are recommended, and why they are more valuable TO ME than the clip on tuner I have that sits in a box not being used.
I will still stand by a pedal tuner being quicker with a greater degree of repeatable accuracy then most all cheap clip on tuners, with the exception of the Poly tune and Peterson clip on, both $50 or more.

Again, this is nothing bad to, and I am not suggesting you are wrong with your choice and reasons for using and liking the Polyclip tuner. Maybe you donā€™t have any pedals to worry about anyway. If you do, and if you have any Zoom multi effect unit, you have a tuner in it, and it can be set up to kill the sound when you go to tuner mode if you want that. For me that is a hard decision, because it is not my first tuner, and I have a noise suppressor, and the fact it can also bypass the presets or patches in the pedal instead of being a mute / kill switch, allowing a clean signal to pass, which I also find handy, so it is either kill the sound, or get a clean sound thru the multi fx pedal.
Yes, I COULD create a clean preset, and select it, then tuner and I will get silent and a clean patch when it is done tuning, but that is more work overall, that I donā€™t really want to do, and it will just be up to the user to decide how they want to do it.

So a long way to say, it is preference of the user. and hard to suggest or recommend something without knowing the whole story about the bass player, what he has already and what his goals are. Most people will recommend the same thing regardless, it would be better to ask the user, what is the goal, or how are they going to use the tuner, and what do they have already.
To talk to somebody starting out, the clip in might be the better suggestion, along with an Amplug as opposed to an amp. This gets the new person set with things they need to play and see if they like it, and they can go on from there.
It would hardly make any sense to recommend a pedal tuner to anybody who doesnā€™t own any pedals or a board full already. For somebody to make a recommendation that is meaningful, they need to consider what the real value will be to that person, and the real value is how happy they will be with what you suggest they get.

Again, I was just answering your question about why people recommend them. There are reasons they do, assuming you are ready for one.
.Is there something wrong with a Clip-on. No for the most part, but it depends on the user and his goals how he wants to use it. there are applications where the clip on would not be the better choice, as there are reasons why it would be the better choice.

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Thanks for the informative post. Yeah, everyone is different. I actually got the Polytune clip-on tuner free, so I lucked out in that department. I have four situations that I play in at the minute (well, three until lockdown ends!).

  1. Chilling on my couch with the amPlug and Headphones
  2. In front of my computer with bass straight into my DAI
  3. In my living room with pedals and my amp
  4. Jamming at a rehearsal studio with pedals and that studios amp

For situations 1&2, I like the convenience of the clip-on tuner. Iā€™m sure @howard will tell me I should use some computer tuner for situation 2, but Iā€™ve not looked into that. I mainly just use it to do light recordings for collaboration brainstorming or jam along to something online. Nothing serious.

For situations 3&4, I currently use the clip-on tuner, but could see a tuner pedal in the future.

If I ever did live shows, Iā€™d definitely invest in a pedal tuner as I donā€™t like the aesthetics of a clip-on tuner. Just my opinion. :slight_smile:

As for pedals, this is my current line-up:

EHX Tone Corset (Compressor)
EHX Green Russian (Distortion/Fuzz)
EHX Bass Clone (Chorus)

I have a passive bass and am currently researching a pre-amp pedal to add to the mix. So many to choose from and not an easy decision. Kinda in analysis paralysis to be honest. :slight_smile:

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@terb and I are preamp geeks. Ask me anything :slight_smile:

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Whats a pre-amp? :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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Itā€™s Pre Vizslaā€™s amp.

(Clone Wars is Best Star Wars :slight_smile: )

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Alrightā€¦ onto pre-amps thenā€¦ :slight_smile:

So, there are a few challenges Iā€™m havingā€¦

  1. Itā€™s hard for me to detect much difference between them apart from the gain/disortion and I generally donā€™t like most of the gain/distortion Iā€™ve heard on a pre-amp. Would rather just use my Green Russian for that.

  2. I get lost in all the extra features. Things like effect loops, signal padding, stereo mode, etc. Iā€™m not sure what I actually need to be future proof.

  3. Of course, everyoneā€™s tastes are different. One review raves about something and another one bashes it. This makes it hard to really work out what people think about them.

Having watched what seems like thousands of pre-amp demo videos, the ones Iā€™m normally drawn to are what people tend to call things like ā€œmuddierā€, ā€œdarkerā€, ā€œold-schoolā€.

As of this morning, the one that sounds the best to me is the EBS ValveDrive DI. But I donā€™t know if it has the right features for me and some people have moaned about the build quality. Others have raved about the pedal.

I donā€™t really have a budget. Happy to spend whatever within reason. Not going to lay down silly money, but up to Ā£400/$500 or so is fine if Iā€™m buying something that I love and will last me for many years to come.

Also, I have pretty bad tinnitus (which sucks!) and that might be why its harder for me to pick out the subtle differences. I still have good hearing overall, just a constant buzzā€¦

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I happen to own an EBS ValveDrive. Mine is built like a tank :slight_smile:

I understand what you are saying about the bells and whistles. Really I would just focus on the tone. Preamps in general are useful for providing EQ and boost, some are good at providing tone coloring, others are nearly transparent. Some have good distortion and/or overdrive, many have very mediocre distortion.

Transparent preamps do not interest me much at all. I have owned one (EHX Battalion) that I really liked but I liked it for other reasons (good distortion, really nice EQ, etc).

For me, tone coloring preamps are where itā€™s at. The ValveDrive so far is the king of the hill I found there for anywhere near the price - it definitely provides a very nice tube character to the sound. It also has a truly great overdriven sound. It sounds like a tube amp. Its only draqback is it doesnā€™t do much else - it is two dimensional, but those dimensions are amazing.

One thing to realize is that nearly all the tone in modern amps, class D amps in particular, comes from the preamp. Those awesome sounding Darkglass amps sound that way because their preamps are literally a Darkglass Vintage Microtubes or other DG preamp.

Thereā€™s a number of truly great tone coloring preamps that are not very expensive. A nice intro-level one would be something like the Behringer BDI-21, which sounds exactly like the SansAmp Bass Driver DI, and costs $35.

Me too. It sucks so bad.

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For recommendations, probably the three best options I have found that I liked most were:

EBS ValveDrive - fantastic tube character, nice Fender-circuit EQ, great overdrive
SansAmp VT Bass DI - this thing just sounds amazing. Solid state, but still adds a very tube-like tone, lots of presence. I absolutely loved mine, until I destroyed it accidentally :slight_smile:
Any of the Darkglass. I owned a Microtubes X which I liked a lot, but not the preamp version with full EQ. The Vintage Microtubes, B7k, X7, or Alpha/Omega in their preamp versions would be worth checking out for sure. I own a sim of the VMT and B7K Ultras, and itā€™s amazing.

I start to document my love affair with the ValveDrive here:

Itā€™s one of three pedals I have left :slight_smile:

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