Darkglass Electronics

Gear
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I went ahead and returned the Darkglass Element. It was great at a lot of things and it’s entirely probable I’ll get another.

My only issue is that I sent the below email 2 weeks ago and still haven’t gotten a reply. The ability to record like this (on top of everything else it can do) would make things a lot easier on me and if it can do what has been suggested then using the Element would be an obvious choice for me. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to get confirmation.

Hi Erik,

In this question…

  1. I want to record from an older Vox 15, a 15-watt tube amp, it only has two OUTs. One bypasses the speaker to go to a separate cabinet. The other uses the speaker and lets you add a cabinet. How do I connect this to make sure I don’t set anything on fire?

I was referencing this information from the Element product page here… Element – Darkglass Electronics

Element w/ amp & speaker cabinet

Note: The Element does NOT act as a loadbox! Always make sure your amplifier is connected to a suitable load!!!

The Element is built to work with amplifiers with a maximum output of 900 W. For the safest operation, it is advised to connect the Element after your speaker cabinet from your speaker cabinet’s parallel output connector. Use the input labelled “ AMP IN ” on the Element. You can now choose the impulse responses in slots 1-5 or the bypass signal. From here, the signal is passed through to the XLR output and via the blend and volume controls to the headphone outputs.

This setup is not represented in the picture you sent.

Based on this I seem to be able to use the parallel out that lets you add a cabinet. I have more than a little hesitation in doing this with a tube amp and the warning about the Element not acting as a loadbox.

When using the parallel out on the Vox 15, does the internal speaker provide the required load, so that using the parallel out will not be an issue?

In the explanation above, it says this will work with an amplifier with a maximum output of 900 watts. I am assuming this is referencing solid state watts. How does this equate to tube watts? I am admittedly way out of my depth here and trying to figure it all out.

Thanks in advance,

Eric

Can anybody here on BassBuzz explain how the Element would be able to do what they are suggesting? I saw something about the Element having a rectifier that allowed it do this. As I said in the email I sent to Darkglass, I am out of my depth on this. If anybody wants to try and explain why this might work or why this might be overzealous marketing, I’m all ears.

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The internal speaker is the load. The parallel out bridges across the already present load. This input on the Element would use a “pad” circuit to reduce the voltage from the amp output down to something closer to line level voltage. Most of the current will flow through the speaker and a little will flow through the pad proportionately. This makes a little snooping circuit listening to the speaker drive signal. They had to pick a minus dB value, too big and the signal goes too low, too small and the smoke gets out. So they made some rules up to constrain it.

This is a physics misnomer. Watts are always the same. I know what you mean though. They started measuring the Watts you get out from a solid state amp differently than Watts from tube amps were measured, so the technique produces a high number by comparison. In similar language, they are talking about solid state Watts. You want to know how big of a tube amp won’t blow it up. Probably none mortals can afford. And if you did, you’d have to be recording in a venue where it was maxed out to worry about letting the smoke out of the element.

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Thanks Dave. That goes a long way to helping demystify this. I can usually look things up but I didn’t even know the right questions for working through this one.

Thus the recommendation for using either the -12dB or -30dB setting. I’m guessing the choice of which to use is based on the difference between the signal strength coming out of the parallel output of the Vox AC15 and the expected signal strength going into the Element.

If I understand what I’ve been reading, a parallel output will be providing a signal at Speaker Level. If this is true and Speaker Level is the same across devices why is there a choice of -12dB OR -30dB? Will this be based on the amount of gain being used?

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This. I’m pretty sure they also mention you should only be doing this with the DG amps who are all solid state. I think it won’t be a problem with a similar solid state amps but I’m not gonna burn my fingers on that one.

The only reason I would sell my Element is the lack of portability. If they make a second element with a rechargeable lithium battery included then I’m sold.

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Speaker level is not the same across all devices.

The formula for power in Watts being delivered to the speaker is V-squared / Impedance of the cabinet. (Using quasi DC math for simplicity). Therefore speaker level in volts goes up with increased power. This is why they have to set a 900 Watt limit. Otherwise, the speaker level voltage could get too high for their design.

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Yes

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67

Lets start from the beginning…

I got a Darkglass Element that appeared to have been a return. The touch sensor button seemed to be having a problem and I returned it before I had a chance to test out all the functionality.

I had decided I wasn’t going to get another one because I wasn’t getting real helpful answers for some of my questions from Darkglass. I think part of the problem is the people that do their customer service don’t understand all the functionality of the Element. Some of the answers I got were completely wrong.

Then, I got another Darkglass Element and here is what I learned over the weekend playing music with my son and experimenting with whatever we could.

My thanks to @DaveT for helping with the technical questions. His help gave me the confidence to move forward with all the stuff I wanted to try out and was the biggest determining factor in deciding to give the Element another chance.

The Instrument IN can be used to plug IN an instrument.
The Instrument OUT can be used to plug IN an instrument.
The Aux IN can be used to plug IN an Instrument (using a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter).

You can use guitar on one, bass on one, and drum machine (keyboard, or whatever else you like) on the third with two people plugged in to the two headphone outs and… It sounds Amazing!

It has great definition, plenty of loudness, and a tremendous amount of versatility. I can’t imagine a better headphone amp.

The instrument OUT can also be used as an amp IN so you can place it between your amp and cabinet. What I had been trying to figure out was if I could go from the parallel speaker out on my son’s Vox AC15 to the amp IN to be able to record him and still get the tone of the Vox on the recording.

I set it up like this and it worked through the headphone OUTs. We were getting a lot of interference and some really weird sounds when he would hit some low notes. Then I turned on a guitar amp sim and all of that cleared up. It worked flawlessly.

I still don’t understand what was going on with the amp sim versus without the amp sim and why that cleaned everything up but it sounded great.

I did run into a pretty big problem. When I hooked it up to my laptop, the Darkglass Suite software said the Element needed an update. I ran the firmware update for version 3.1. The Element rebooted itself. And… it never talked to the laptop again. So, I was never able to test the DAI capability. Sh!t. Now I’m stuck.

I talked to the manager at the Athens, GA Guitar Center and he recommended returning it, saying it wasn’t worth waiting to see if they would fix this and end up missing the return window.

If the DAI had worked, at even a basic level, I would keep it. We really had a great time experimenting and playing with it.

If anybody is running firmware version 3.1 (the newest release), let me know if it works for you.

Who knows, I may end going for a third Element but for the time being, I think I’m going to just get an Audio Interface and revisit this sometime later.

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I am:

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… and it works fine as a DAI in Reaper (although I had to download the latest ASIO driver from DG web-page):

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No surprise here. I have a problem with mine. Even after adjusting sensitivity settings to the max, I need to put pretty much my entire body weight onto the button to make it change. Now, I run it permanently without a cabsim (I prefer plugins anyways) - it’s just too much of a PITA to change the settings.

Otherwise though, it’s a great little box and I love it.

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Thanks for checking. There must be something else wrong with mine.

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I tried them both. While I love NeuralDSP Parallax as a multiband overdrive/distortion for bass.

I like Nembrini Audio Blackice Beta Gamma Bass more than I like Neurals Darkglass.

But I still do like their Darkglass too, just not as much as Blackice Gamma.

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I never had any issues with my DG gear.

Try reinstalling Darkglass Suite on your computer to see if that solves the problem. If it was working before the problem is most likely with your computer. Can you still connect to it with your mobile?

In the suite/app you can check how your presets are. Maybe the guitar sims have the poweramp deactivated? I can imagine it will give weird sounds if you run a real amp into a sim amp so it prob should be turned off if you use it like that.

Sending it back seems a bit hasty to me. I would contact customer service first because I think the fault is not within the unit.

Good luck!

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Hey Paul. I did end up contacting Darkglass and they had no explanation other than it should have come right back up on the new firmware.

I tried de-installing the Darkglass Suite and reinstalling and I went through every permutation of rebooting the computer, reinitializing the Element, unplugging, replugging, and I was never able to get it to come back.

I never tested with the phone app. Even if it had worked that way, I still didn’t feel confident keeping it since part of my purpose for it was recording and I wanted to be able to do that directly to my computer. Oh wait. That wasn’t what you were talking about.

Yes. I wish I had thought of that but at the time we were both so happy with the sounds we were getting, I didn’t even think about trying to use the phone app for that.

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Haha no worries, too bad it didn’t worked out but not a big loss, right? I think having a dedicated DAI is much more useful for recording and playback.

Also I do prefer the DG app over the desktop software since I had some minor issues with the suite software in the past too.

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Yeah. I was really looking forward to seeing the DG Suite redesign. The stills I’ve seen look pretty cool and the expectation that they are going to add more amps is really nice.

For the record, I dont think my experience is typical of what anyone else has gone through and I still think the Element is a pretty bad ass piece of gear.

If anybody is thinking of getting one, now is the time to look for deals in local shops. The official price has gone from $250 up to $280 but I found my last one in a Guitar Center at the old price.

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I’m such a DG fanboi. :man_shrugging: All units are secondhand except the Element. The B7k and Vintage from NeuralDSP got me into bass so I was bit nostalgic about having those two. The B7K sounds more modern (goes well with j-bass) and the vintage goes well with p-bass.

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Well I saved up my money from my birthday, didn’t go wild on black friday and sold a bass. So now I got the new (digital) Darkglass Alpha Omega Photon which can fully replace my previous pedalboard! It has a built-in compressor, Alpha/Omega distortion circuit and cabsim all-in-one.

It kinda reminds me of my Helix Stomp since it works with presets. I had an A/O before so I knew what I was getting into but I’m really blown away by how good this thing sounds and performs. At this point I would even consider the Microtubes series if they ever launched it.

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I always preferred analog pedals but at this point I really couldn’t care less.

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That thing looks awesome.

I loved the tone in my Microtubes X.

Honestly, for lots of effects - some modulations and all octavers especially - digital has always been as good or better. I held out a long time for overdrives and distortions, but I have digital distortions and great overdriving amp sims that I like a whole lot now too. And digital is just so much more convenient.

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Yeah for sure. I really don’t see me going back to any setup without cabsims either. The nice thing is that my monitor has a reverb and chorus setting so I’m all gucci.

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Yep amp and cab sims are mandatory for me now. So good. So cheap. So not 40kg to lug around :rofl:

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Wow @Paul! You got on that quick. Is everything else going to Reverb?

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